Tear Down and Reassemble Unstarted 1.7 built to 2270, 1.7 to 2270 Unstarted 10 Year Old Build Options

[Robroe]

Here's a picture of the rod groove done with a hand file. Couldn't I do this with a small round file? I don't have a mill in my shop.

Would have to rebalance after.

[930cabman]

Here's a picture of the rod groove done with a hand file. Couldn't I do this with a small round file? I don't have a mill in my shop.

Would have to rebalance after.

The TSB states "V"

[Superhawk996]

Hawk - Not sure what to look for regarding case decking. Does this pict provide enough detail for you to see evidence of machining? If not, what do you need to see to determine? I'll take a photo.

Yeah that’s the area of interest. But what really matters is that both spigots are flat one to the other and parallel to the crank.

It is hard to tell if there has been some additional cleanup there or if that is the factory machining.

Do you have a good straightedge to use to span both spigots and check with a feeler gauge?

Let me see if I can round up an image for you.

[edit] Here you go see post #57 when I was doing machine work on my cases.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...38513&st=40

[technicalninja]

If you remove the same amount of material, it shouldn't affect the balancing that much.

I'd use a file.

I do agree with Superhawk, I'd use a round jeweler's file. I DON"T like sharp edges anywhere.

Those rods are strong enough (and the engine is wimpy enough) that I don't think you'll effect the strength enough to cause problems

I would recheck the balancing.

If you're careful you could improve the balancing this way...

[technicalninja]

As you haven't verified crank balancing, I'd do at least the cheap version.

Everything bolted to the crank including the fan, flywheel, and pressure plate.
I'd leave the disc out.

I'd index everything to allow perfect re-assembly.

Have the whole critter balanced taking the weight out of either the flywheel and or fan.

I'd have the fan fully prepped including paint/powder coat. I'd have the outer ring finished and bolted on.

This will end up with a single balance operation instead of doing it 5+ times as you add each item.

The net result will be identical and should be significantly cheaper this way.

The only caveat is that if you have to replace an item the balance will be affected more doing it the cheap way versus individual balancing.

[Robroe]

As you haven't verified crank balancing, I'd do at least the cheap version.

Everything bolted to the crank including the fan, flywheel, and pressure plate.
I'd leave the disc out.

I'd index everything to allow perfect re-assembly.

Have the whole critter balanced taking the weight out of either the flywheel and or fan.

I'd have the fan fully prepped including paint/powder coat. I'd have the outer ring finished and bolted on.

This will end up with a single balance operation instead of doing it 5+ times as you add each item.

The net result will be identical and should be significantly cheaper this way.

The only caveat is that if you have to replace an item the balance will be affected more doing it the cheap way versus individual balancing.

Crankshaft balancing question. The situation:
pistons and rods are balanced
crank is new
engine was updated to 22?? around 10 years ago and never started. Balanced then.
Cost to balance crank in local machine shop is $98. I would bolt on the flywheel, pressure plate and fan (fan is already powder coated).

My question: Is it worth the extra $98 and time to make sure the balance is correct?

[technicalninja]

you're going to have to answer that one yourself.

If I found obvious individual balance marks on all items, I'd probably skip it.

Still, what will $100 buy today?

Seems inexpensive to check...

[Superhawk996]

$98 is well spent.

Having the assembly balanced helps with durability and just takes the build to 10, tenths.

[Superhawk996]

$98 is well spent.

Having the assembly balanced helps with durability and just takes the build to 10, tenths.

I’m a little bit unclear though. Is that $98 just to balance the crank or are they going to do the crank, flywheel, pressure plate, fan assembly?

I would want the assembly balanced, not just the crank.

[930cabman]

$98 is well spent.

Having the assembly balanced helps with durability and just takes the build to 10, tenths.

I’m a little bit unclear though. Is that $98 just to balance the crank or are they going to do the crank, flywheel, pressure plate, fan assembly?

I would want the assembly balanced, not just the crank.

The assembly must be balanced, and preferably starting with the crank only and adding the fan (balanced again), flywheel (balanced again) and pressure plate (balanced again).
Even if the cost is a couple hundred, this has the makings of a killer motor, assuming everything is dialed in properly.

[Robroe]

$98 is well spent.

Having the assembly balanced helps with durability and just takes the build to 10, tenths.

I’m a little bit unclear though. Is that $98 just to balance the crank or are they going to do the crank, flywheel, pressure plate, fan assembly?

I would want the assembly balanced, not just the crank.

The assembly must be balanced, and preferably starting with the crank only and adding the fan (balanced again), flywheel (balanced again) and pressure plate (balanced again).
Even if the cost is a couple hundred, this has the makings of a killer motor, assuming everything is dialed in properly.

It’s the assembly. Crank, flywheel and fan.

[Robroe]

It’s the assembly. Crank, flywheel and fan.
[/quote]
And pressure plate. I’ll drop it off tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.

[930cabman]

$98 is well spent.

Having the assembly balanced helps with durability and just takes the build to 10, tenths.

I’m a little bit unclear though. Is that $98 just to balance the crank or are they going to do the crank, flywheel, pressure plate, fan assembly?

I would want the assembly balanced, not just the crank.

The assembly must be balanced, and preferably starting with the crank only and adding the fan (balanced again), flywheel (balanced again) and pressure plate (balanced again).
Even if the cost is a couple hundred, this has the makings of a killer motor, assuming everything is dialed in properly.

It’s the assembly. Crank, flywheel and fan.

Don't forget the pressure plate. So far as I know the disc is not included even though it's part of the rotating assembly

[technicalninja]

Disc should be considered part of the "transmission" for balance purposes IMO.

PP should be included and indexed to flywheel.

I believe it is the only part that needs indexing as everything else can only be installed in single clock position due to the rear flywheel dowel and the front crankshaft key.

Someone posted that Raby indexes the flywheel and pressure plate bolts.

I'm a persnickety bastard and I've never indexed the fasteners on anything.

I'm guessing they weigh very close to the same amount.

Nother thing EVERYONE seems to forget. The windage oil MOVES around the crankshaft and rods in an un-even manner.

The engine is NEVER truly balanced!

A badly out of balance engine will feel "rougher" but until the difference becomes immense it doesn't rip the engine apart.

It's just rougher...

I bought a used set of 6-inch H-beams for an SBC.

The seller didn't say 2 were different manufacture. They were 60 grams heavier than the other 6.
Ran for 2 seasons in a bracket car with no ill effect per the seller.

I paid half what he wanted due to this and just bought 2 new Eagle rods to make the set complete.

60 grams difference is a shitload!
I wouldn't run that, but it obviously did work in an 800hp nitrous fed small block for a couple of years...

[930cabman]

60 grams, that's close to 10# or so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Jack Standz]

I'd say a bracket race car with 2 rods that were 60 grams out each was way way more than 10 pounds. But, we get the point. The metric system still remains somewhat mysterious. Just off the top of my head remember that there's something like 454 grams in a pound?

My head is about to explode with the math, but 60 grams (and which two of the 8 throws were out), what stroke length?, times 6,000++ RPM. Yeah, way more than 10 pounds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's surprising that a rod bolt or two didn't let loose.

[technicalninja]

And it gets worse!

The rods were marked for position and the two heavy ones shared the same crank throw!

I didn't take a scale with me at the purchase BUT I could FEEL the difference!

My first question was "This stayed TOGETHER?"

He wanted 200 and I paid 100 intending to replace all the rod bolts anyways and just purchase two new matching rods.

I think it was a 3.75 stroke 383 set up.

H-beams are stupid strong!

[Robroe]

Connecting rods are grooved with round jewelers files on both sides like the pictures. Crank assembly (crank, fan, flywheel and pressure plate) is balanced as suggested. It was already close but the did tweek it. The pistons and rods are weighed and are within a gram between cylinders. So now I intend to assemble the crank, cam, distributor and join the case halves. Will go slowly making sure there is no binding of the crank. I have the Type 4 store sealant kit and the gasket kit and front and rear main seals.

No taco plate on my engine. Should I buy one with the oil temp sensor like the one from 914werkes? Also, need to buy the cylinder head temp sensor for #3 spark plug. Any one have recommendations on which one they like? Hopefully the gauge isn't too costly. Also, would like to add the oil pressure hose out of the sensor hole so I can connect the idiot light sensor as well as an oil pressure sensor. Anyone like a particular suppliers set up or do I need to piecemeal the parts?

Looking forward to finally assembling.

[emerygt350]

Sounds great. Dakota digital cht is nice but ugly. Good looking is expensive.for oil pressure, I am not sure what the current preference is, but my dual pole works great heading to a vdo gauge and the normal idiot light.

Oil temperature is a tough call. I like my 73 with the narrow band because it doesn't move much unless things are heading south. However, it doesn't tell you much. I think I would prefer a gauge with more granularity like the later gauges. However, I do appreciate it's steady state to reassure me that nothing really out of the ordinary is going on.

Another gauge I love having is a vacuum gauge. Not many people use them on the dash, but it tells me all kinds of things about my engine. Between the vacuum, air fuel ratio, and the cht I really get a good feel for my engines condition.

For AFR, I went with an analog expensive unit and have regretted it since day one. Good old AEM would have been better for an air cooled engine. The high end models are very picky and poop the bed when they see things they don't like.

[Superhawk996]

Looking forward to finally assembling.

Have you measured your bearing clearances yet? You should not be doing final assembly without knowing bearing clearances. Maybe I missed it?

Main bearing - split shell with Plastigage as surrogate for others or measure directly and do the math. Personally I do both.

Rods - plastigage at minimum