Tear Down and Reassemble Unstarted 1.7 built to 2270, 1.7 to 2270 Unstarted 10 Year Old Build Options

[Robroe]

Looking forward to finally assembling.

Have you measured your bearing clearances yet? You should not be doing final assembly without knowing bearing clearances. Maybe I missed it?

Main bearing - split shell with Plastigage as surrogate for others or measure directly and do the math. Personally I do both.

Rods - plastigage at minimum

Yes, measured rods with plastigage and within spec. Do you assemble the case without sealant to plastigage the main split bearing.

[Superhawk996]

Do you assemble the case without sealant to plastigage the main split bearing.

Correct.

The thing to be care of when final assembling is not to use too much sealant on the case. More is not better.

Otherwise, too much sealant prevents the case halves from mating and increases bearing clearance. Over time the clamp load on the case halves will cause the sealant to creep, and you’ll lose clamp load on the case halves. Not to mention how many cases I’ve seen that suffer from “case worms”; the remnants of silicone RTV (which shouldn’t be used anyway) that squeezes out inside the case. Best case, they get caught via the strainer and oil filter. Worst case - I’ve found bits in oil galleys.

[930cabman]

Looking forward to finally assembling.

Have you measured your bearing clearances yet? You should not be doing final assembly without knowing bearing clearances. Maybe I missed it?

Main bearing - split shell with Plastigage as surrogate for others or measure directly and do the math. Personally I do both.

Rods - plastigage at minimum

Yes, measured rods with plastigage and within spec. Do you assemble the case without sealant to plastigage the main split bearing.

yes, it will get you close. I am not sure but maybe you could also install the full bearings and mic the internal dim being crushed. Not 100% sure on that, maybe the pro's will chime in

[Robroe]

Oil clearance on the crank journals is .002" according to a plastigage test today. I've not been able to find that spec in the Wilson book or Haynes manual. From what I can find from various posts, it is the correct clearance. Rod bearing clearance was measured last week and in spec.

I'm going to clean everything yet again and measure the case, crank and cam journals as well as bearings and record them in my little book. Assemble the rods to crank. Then ready to test fit the crank, cam and distributor before final assembly of the case. Then I can get the crank end play correctly measured and the proper shims ordered if I need them. And measure deck height on one cylinder to determine cylinder shim size to order.

Am I missing anything before I get ready to close up the case?

[930cabman]

Oil clearance on the crank journals is .002" according to a plastigage test today. I've not been able to find that spec in the Wilson book or Haynes manual. From what I can find from various posts, it is the correct clearance. Rod bearing clearance was measured last week and in spec.

I'm going to clean everything yet again and measure the case, crank and cam journals as well as bearings and record them in my little book. Assemble the rods to crank. Then ready to test fit the crank, cam and distributor before final assembly of the case. Then I can get the crank end play correctly measured and the proper shims ordered if I need them. And measure deck height on one cylinder to determine cylinder shim size to order.

Am I missing anything before I get ready to close up the case?

My gut tells me .002 is on the tight side for the crank. Were you able to install the whole main bearings and get an internal measurement?

Mr Wilson does mention the main bearing case ID and the crank journals OD. Looks as though the bearing wall thickness is in the 5mm range. Might be able to calculate the clearance, crush is a variable

Are the clearances from crank/rods to the case ok? Crank gear - cam gear backlash ok? probably many more things to check.

[technicalninja]

Measure deck height on all 4 cylinders and pick the highest one to choose your shim.

If your measurements are all the same, you got lucky!

Seldom are deck heights the same.

[bkrantz]

Measure deck height on all 4 cylinders and pick the highest one to choose your shim.

If your measurements are all the same, you got lucky!

Seldom are deck heights the same.

I would check deck height and differences, and squareness, before gluing the case halves.

[Superhawk996]

Oil clearance on the crank journals is .002"

Rule of thumb is .001” clearance per 1” of journal diameter.

Journals are 2.3609 - 2.3617.

I’d feel better at .0025” clearance. It’s worth the effort to really get this measurement right and be sure it is correct.

What color plastigage did you use? Green 0.001-0.003” and red 0.002 - 0.006”. If you started with red and it’s saying 0.002”, drop down to green, it will give you a better measurement. The problem is even with green the scale is .002 and then jumps to .003”. You have to eyeball / interpolate .00025”. If I got .002” on red and .003” on green I’d be perfectly happy.

If it truly is 0.002” you have two options:
1) Have a machine shop polish the journals ever so slightly to increase clearance.

2) Run at 0.002” but run a slightly thinner oil multi viscosity oil like a 5w or even 0W at break in and for about first 500 miles and let things wear in.

Unless you have a very good machine shop that you can trust, I’d probably opt for option two.

The important thing is to know what you have and act accordingly.

[Superhawk996]

Measure deck height on all 4 cylinders and pick the highest one to choose your shim.

If your measurements are all the same, you got lucky!

Seldom are deck heights the same.

I would check deck height and differences, and squareness, before gluing the case halves.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I’ll typically mock up a case at least two if not more like 4 times before final assembly.

[technicalninja]

Be CAREFUL using plastigauge.

The stuff SHRINKS with age!

I ALWYS buy brand new from Summit in the hopes that they sell enough to be fresh.

I'd guess Summit sells more than anyone else.

1 year old plastigauge is USELESS!

[Robroe]

I’ll typically mock up a case at least two if not more like 4 times before final assembly.
[/quote]

Getting better at splitting the case! 4 times so far. Light coating of anti seize on the two locating dowels on the case halves for easier splitting during mock up. Will clean off well when done with mock up. Used green plastigage. It was between .002' and .003". Crank spins effortlessly when case through bolts are torqued. Making sure the three round bearings are on their dowel pins is kind of an art.

Now assembling rods to crank and test fit cam and distributor. Then assemble case again without sealant for deck height flatness and measurement. Maybe measure end play at that time before final assembly with sealant.

Thanks so much for your insights. Learning a lot.

[930cabman]

Be CAREFUL using plastigauge.

The stuff SHRINKS with age!

I ALWYS buy brand new from Summit in the hopes that they sell enough to be fresh.

I'd guess Summit sells more than anyone else.

1 year old plastigauge is USELESS!

Never had an issue with "old" Plastigage

[Robroe]

Test assembled case before sealing it up to measure deck height and end play. Trying to get proper size shims without stacking to achieve deck height of between .045" and .060" to keep compression ratio around 9 to 9.2 or so. Pistons are about .080" proud of cylinder without shims between case and cylinder. Trying to find proper shims without stacking for deck height of .060" or so. Closest shim size I've been able to find are .160" from type 4 store. This would make deck height .080". Using the AA Piston and Cylinder compression calculator, if I use the .160" shims my deck height would be .080" with shims installed and compression would be 8.8. (stroke is 78 mm, bore is 96 mm, combustion chamber is 58 cc and deck height would be .08") Is 8.8 compression too low? Any ideas on suppliers of shims/spacers that would be .140"?

[Jack Standz]

So, have you contacted the typeivstore/lnengineering yet?

https://lnengineering.com/030-copper-base-s...e-register.html

"stacking multiple shims is not recommended - we can make custom base shims in any thickness if needed with a 1-2 week lead time."

The link takes you to shims for nickies, but with some lead time, it's pretty clear they could make your shims.

[Robroe]

So, have you contacted the typeivstore/lnengineering yet?

https://lnengineering.com/030-copper-base-s...e-register.html

"stacking multiple shims is not recommended - we can make custom base shims in any thickness if needed with a 1-2 week lead time."

The link takes you to shims for nickies, but with some lead time, it's pretty clear they could make your shims.

Type 4 store told me they do not make custom steel shims anymore and did not have a supplier to recommend.

[Superhawk996]

Look for a local machine shop that can do Blanchard Grinding. Let the shop know the approximate thickness you want (ie 4mm or so) just to make sure they have machine that can give you want you want. Also let them know the shim is non-ferrous (try to avoid ferrous if you can) otherwise they are going to assume they can use a magnetic chuck.

Buy a shim thicker than needed - have the shims ground to your desired thickness.

[Robroe]

Look for a local machine shop that can do Blanchard Grinding. Let the shop know the approximate thickness you want (ie 4mm or so) just to make sure they have machine that can give you want you want. Also let them know the shim is non-ferrous (try to avoid ferrous if you can) otherwise they are going to assume they can use a magnetic chuck.

Buy a shim thicker than needed - have the shims ground to your desired thickness.

local machine shops cannot blanchard grind. I can get proper thickness by stacking two shims, but would prefer a single shim. Engine had never run and had 4 shims stacked to get .150". I could stack a .090" and a .060" to get .150". Not my favorite idea. AA advised me to use copper head shims to make up the difference. Also not my favorite idea.

[Robroe]

Look for a local machine shop that can do Blanchard Grinding. Let the shop know the approximate thickness you want (ie 4mm or so) just to make sure they have machine that can give you want you want. Also let them know the shim is non-ferrous (try to avoid ferrous if you can) otherwise they are going to assume they can use a magnetic chuck.

Buy a shim thicker than needed - have the shims ground to your desired thickness.

local machine shops cannot blanchard grind. I can get proper thickness by stacking two shims, but would prefer a single shim. Engine had never run and had 4 shims stacked to get .150". I could stack a .090" and a .060" to get .150". Not my favorite idea. AA advised me to use copper head shims to make up the difference. Also not my favorite idea.

type 4 store sells .170" shims I could have ground down to .150" if I could find a shop that does it. No one local does it and a quick search of Seattle and Spokane didn't bring up a shop that could do it. Any thoughts on who could grind them to .150"?

[Superhawk996]

Ugh - I relocated from Detroit so used to having tons of machine shops available at request.

I just called a couple place over in Spokane (I’ll need the service myself someday). I didn’t find anyone that has a double disc Blanchard grinder that can handle material that thin. They would have to do standard surface grinding on a magnetic chuck (ferrous material only). This isn’t the end of the world but not ideal either. Flatness on a surface grinder won’t be as good as if Blanchard ground. Looking at about $200 ish to grind .020” off four .170 shims. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I can’t believe there wouldn’t be a shop somewhere in Seattle / Tacoma area given Boeing in the area. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I don’t like stacking - but I might be more sympathetic now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Don’t give up just yet, do some more googling & calling around.

Very disappointing LN not doing them anymore and can’t recommend a shop they source or sub-contract.

[Robroe]

Ugh - I relocated from Detroit so used to having tons of machine shops available at request.

I just called a couple place over in Spokane (I’ll need the service myself someday). I didn’t find anyone that has a double disc Blanchard grinder that can handle material that thin. They would have to do standard surface grinding on a magnetic chuck (ferrous material only). This isn’t the end of the world but not ideal either. Flatness on a surface grinder won’t be as good as if Blanchard ground. Looking at about $200 ish to grind .020” off four .170 shims. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I can’t believe there wouldn’t be a shop somewhere in Seattle / Tacoma area given Boeing in the area. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I don’t like stacking - but I might be more sympathetic now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Don’t give up just yet, do some more googling & calling around.

Very disappointing LN not doing them anymore and can recommend a shop.

I was targeting around 9 C/R. If I went with the larger available .160" shims from type 4 and did not grind them, my deck height would be .08' and compression ratio of 8.8. Is this C/R too low for my motor?