front wheel movement, Thought it was the bearings, but they are new... Options

[rjames]

What did you use for lower control arm bushings rubber or hard bushing like Delrin?

Just crawled out from under the car. It's either in the spindles or the gland nut- I really can't tell.

Given that I'm out of options on hand with the spindle and bearings, I might as well try to tighten the gland nuts more. Not something I want to do given the issues I had getting the bolt tightened that sits on the top of the strut that secures it to the camber plate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Tightening the gland nuts was a HUGE PITA because of the type of gland nut that Koni uses (and is required to use in order to center the shaft in the housing). It's only slightly wider than the strut housing, so no pipe wrench. It's a pin style nut, and the pin holes have a very shallow depth making the tool very prone to sliding out. It was hard enough to tighten them on the bench with a vice. Trying to do it in the wheel well without the whole works moving will be 10x the fun with the added chance of sliding off and nicking the fender. Fuch.

[Superhawk996]

Way back when you were having the issues with the top mount washers I mentioned I’ve never used Koni’s (prefer Bilstein but have used Boge once) .

Hearing about the Koni glad nut, and having seen their new upper bushing setup, I think you’ve convinced me to never touch Koni’s.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If it were me, I’d probably just remove the strut from the car. Now that you have all new components and things aren’t corroded, they will come out pretty easily. Maybe just pull one to really deep dive it?

[rjames]

Way back when you were having the issues with the top mount washers I mentioned I’ve never used Koni’s (always Bilstein).

Hearing about the Koni glad nut, and having seen their new upper bushing setup, I think you’ve convinced me to never touch Koni’s.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If it were me, I’d probably just remove the strut from the car. Now that you have all new components and things are corroded, they will come out pretty easily.

No doubt! I wouldn't recommend Koni to anyone after my experience!

I thought about taking everything off, but I don't want to touch the wedge pins again (you may remember the fun I had with those) and I don't have the correct torque wrench for the ball joint to put that back on (I had to borrow a wrench and won't have a chance to get it again before the weekend is over).
Removing everything is still an option, but I'd have to remove the top nut anyway to pull the struts down to remove the dust cover so I can get to the gland nut, so I might as well try doing it in the car first. I can always pull the whole thing out later.

[Superhawk996]

I can always pull the whole thing out later.

Good point - won’t hurt to try in car 1st.

I wish I had better advice for you to pinpoint this. So hard to do without being able to directly feel it and hear it for myself.

[rjames]

I can always pull the whole thing out later.

Good point - won’t hurt to try in car 1st.

I wish I had better advice for you to pinpoint this. So hard to do without being able to directly feel it and hear it for myself.

Found a video that is fairly close to what I'm hearing, giving me hope that it's the gland nuts that aren't tightened down enough.
However, I can't replicate it with the tire off or get anything to move. The tire has to be on the car with the car's weight on the tire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWWpJr9uIhc

[rjames]

It’s not the gland nut.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Turns out I can grab the top and bottom of the rotor itself and move it just barely. But I guess with the wheels/tires on, that translates to ‘a lot’. I don’t understand why it’s more pronounced under load though.

2 Q’s:

When is too much movement at the spindle too much to drive the car?

What would cause both spindles to wear like that?

[Superhawk996]

It’s not that it’s unsafe per se; just likely to be annoying to drive and may not do your alignment any favors.

Given the manufacturing quality of things today I would be inclined to buy a different brand of rotor and bearings and try that. The only thing that makes me question this is that you indicated the old rotor & old bearings were the same?

The more load / tire on makes sense because it magnifies slop & defects things more that you can by gripping the rotor by hand.

[Superhawk996]

Before you jump to conclusion that it’s the spindles, have you measured them with a micrometer?



Yesterday I mentioned a slip fit being 0.002” as a general maching statement. Looking at the factory manual specs, and converting to inches, they are shooting for 0.001”. Still slip fit but pretty tight clearances.

Note: to measure to this level of precision, you need to measure with a micrometer, calipers aren’t going to cut it.

[mepstein]

I’m no expert but I’m guessing any movement is too much. As soon as you have free play, any driving will damage the parts quickly and increase the play further. You probably just have to find some good used struts.

[rjames]

I don’t have a micrometer, only calipers, so my measurements may have not been accurate enough.
I also don’t have the patience to pull the struts assembly off again, try and source another set and cross my fingers that they aren’t jacked, too.

Going to try and forget I own this car for the rest of the weekend, which will be difficult since I was supposed to take it to a local car show on Sunday.

I normally enjoy working on the car, but the front end was a big undertaking/time suck and I hit a bunch of stupid self-inflicted roadblocks. Now that I know my way around it, disassembling would be much quicker, I just don’t have it in me at the moment.

I’m still perplexed how both spindles could be bad. I guess I can try and order another set of bearings and hope for a different outcome.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

[Superhawk996]

Yeah - understand the frustration. There are times I wonder why I love cars so much when they can be such a PITA.

If car show is local - say 20 -30 miles or less one way, take it. Go get a beer and enjoy some sunshine with the top off and talking to other crazies. You’ll feel better.

[rjames]

Yeah - understand the frustration. There are times I wonder why I love cars so much when they can be such a PITA.

If car show is local - say 20 -30 miles or less one way, take it. Go get a beer and enjoy some sunshine with the top off and talking to other crazies. You’ll feel better.

Thanks, I may just do that.

[bkrantz]

I know it's cheating but if the "free play" is tiny, how about using bearing retaining compound?

[Superhawk996]

A micrometer doesn’t have to be stupid expensive to get better accuracy than a set of calipers.

Warning: there is a learning curve to get a feel for using micrometers if you’ve never used them. YouTube and spend some time measuring the calibration block that comes with a gauge larger than 1”.

If you buy a set that includes a 0-1” micrometer it’s super easy to practice and get the “feel” locked in by practicing on a set of feeler gauges where you know the number it should be spitting out.

[Superhawk996]

I know it's cheating but if the "free play" is tiny, how about using bearing retaining compound?

Not going to stand up to heat and impact loads.

Edit: if I’m not mistaken the retaining compound you’re referencing are for pocketed ball bearings with integral inner and outer races. I’m not sure this would work for taper roller bearings on a spindle. I could be wrong on this point.

[rjames]

Thanks for the link to the micrometer..

I’m in root cause analysis mode now.
I’m still perplexed as to how both spindles became toast. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Thanks for the link to the micrometer..

I’m in root cause analysis mode now.
I’m still perplexed as to how both spindles became toast. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I don’t think you can assume the spindles are toast until they have been measured.

Just as likely the bearings aren’t toleranced properly. To measure the ID of the bearing race, you’ll need a set of snap gauges. See . . . The object here is to spend as much money as possible on specialty tools. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Another possibility cheaper option is just pay a machinist to measure spindle and bearing race for you.

[Artfrombama]

Check the bearing journals vertically and then at 90*. All the wear will most likely on the bottom of the journals. I would think any more than .002” out of round, the part should be replaced.

[rjames]

Check the bearing journals vertically and then at 90*. All the wear will most likely on the bottom of the journals. I would think any more than .002” out of round, the part should be replaced.

I was using new bearings.

[rjames]

Feeling stupid for not noticing this before. Blaming my bad eyesight. I didn’t see it until going through the photos I took while troubleshooting.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
A safe bet that the abnormal wear is causing the issue. There are no such wear markings at the inboard side. What would cause this? Bearing originally set too tight? Too lose? Corrosion?