spark plug wire debacle plus more..HELP!, plug wires and plugs now wont start Options

[fiacra]

Fiacra,
Thanks so much I really needed the vote of confidence and your tone was much appreciated. As much as I want to be able to work on my own cars it just gets frustrating sometimes.. Just need to take a deep breath and get back out there and start from the basics. I know most are just kidding around with the comments ..

My concern is that rev limiting rotor just doesn't seem to sit right down in there and maybe I just need to try again..

Thanks..keep you posted

If the rotor isn't properly seated that would lead to a no start condition. You should feel it firmly seat in place. Once in place it should have no play if you try to turn it by hand, and any play generally comes from the distributor shaft. When trying to turn the rotor you will feel a hard stop at the limits of any play. If you feel like it isn't seating properly, or doesn't have a hard stop, take a close look and see if the stem of the rotor is cracked or broken in any way. If you get a bit heavy handed trying to put the rotor back on you can crack it. Check the cap closely for damage as well. Anything you touched, any parts you replaced, and any area you worked in during this process merits a close inspection.

Is that a Pertronix ignition I see? I have no experience with those, but I understand that if you leave the ignition on for a period of time without the car running that you can burn them out. If you feel like you have everything back together properly and you aren't getting a spark, that might be the problem. Somebody else with experience can chime in here.

This is a solvable problem. Frustration is inevitable, but don't let it get the best of you. Take breaks, walk away for a while, work on something else for a while, sleep on problems, etc. Practice and experience will teach you that. I suspect that everyone here has thrown a few tools in their day, and broken a few things because of having a heavy hand, but you learn a lot from those experiences. With time you get the feel for things like a properly seated rotor. What you are going through right now will give you a good foundation for future work on your car. Just think about how much you are learning about the layout of your engine bay right now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[thecleanoutking]

So i just went out there again and was looking closely the green condenser wire was off the coil but it has those pointless ignition or what ever its call no idea about that so I wasn't sure.. anyway I hooked the green wire back up and she fired up but I shut it down to make sure my wires are correct..

Here is another expanded view of my motor I can't seem to find the engine numbers??

[87m491]

So i just went out there again and was looking closely the green condenser wire was off the coil but it has those pointless ignition or what ever its call no idea about that so I wasn't sure.. anyway I hooked the green wire back up and she fired up but I shut it down to make sure my wires are correct..

Here is another expanded view of my motor I can't seem to find the engine numbers??

A few things, the underside of the rotor shaft hole will reveal a raised portion that coincides with a cutout in the distributer shaft. Use those landmarks to align rotor in the future. In my experience if the rotor is not fully seated the cap will not go back on. Second the green wire attaches to the coil but it does seem that you have a "pointless" ignition so the condenser lead should be useless now. 3rd the zip ties on the cylinder #4 plug lead look pretty sketchy to me. Are they holding he wire together?

You say the car now starts and runs? Go with it.

[fiacra]

So i just went out there again and was looking closely the green condenser wire was off the coil but it has those pointless ignition or what ever its call no idea about that so I wasn't sure.. anyway I hooked the green wire back up and she fired up but I shut it down to make sure my wires are correct..

I can't answer about the wiring of the electronic ignition, but I suspect you have now solved your problem. Looks like @Superhawk996 might be the winner here! Post some photos so others who know how this should be hooked up can see. At least you have confirmed that you have gas and spark and your car will run. That's a win right there.

As far as engine numbers a real 914 1.7/1.8 serial number is on top of the case near #3 cylinder stamped on at an angle. For 2.0 engines it is just in front of the oil filler. You are looking for the letter code in front of the engine number to identify it. Once you have that, go here:

http://www.914world.com/specs/engnumbs.php

If your car is a 1974 it would have either a 1.8 or a 2.0. A 1.7 would have been a transplant into a 1974. Check your vin to see what year car you have. If you're lucky you have a 2.0, not that a 1.7 or a 1.8 is a bad engine. They are all fun.

[thecleanoutking]

I pretty much give up today I attached the green wire and it did seem to start for a sec and I shut her down..to make sure everything was looking good..

now nothing again.. the zip ties on the wires are just that 3 zip ties on cylin 3 4 on the 4 wire 2 on the two wire..the way I got it..

Can't win..

more pics I guess I suspect its a 1.7 but I thought it was a 1.8 as to many parts I've ordered..

Thought I saw a video on the yellow fuel injectors being 1.7 only..I don't know what I have..funny thing is it wasn't running too bad...until I messed with it now nothing..geeze

[emerygt350]

Looking at the plug locations and all the stuff above I am going with a transplanted 1.7 (the mps is the dead give away), are you sure it is a 74? The fact that it starts and stops after you mess with it makes me think it is an electrical issue. Those leads to the coil break very easily and there are a million other little leads on there that will cause a no start condition.

Is it trying to start or is it just turning over and no cylinder is firing even a little?

[thecleanoutking]

yes...just tuning over no kick to start..

I think your right its a transplanted 73 1.7 motor in a 1974

at least its titled a 74 and 3 of the 4 vin id's say 74 the paper one in the door has been scratched out..

whatever it is its mine I was enjoying driving it and on;y tried to give it a fresh tune up, now i got nothing

[worn]

In regards to your frustration, you can indeed win. These cars can make you smile when they run right. I actually think they run quite well, but it involves an education to be sure. You may not know this so it is worth mentioning. The people responding to your questions are the real deal. They are experts and are at the same time generous with their time. We are guessing that it is a 1.7 in part because of the injectors. The big difference between 1.7 and 2.0 apart from the hard to see displacement difference is the shape of the cylinder heads. From the outside a 2.0 will have only three intake studs per head. The spark plug hole are also different as seen by holes in the engine tin. Where I live you would be looking at months before a possible drive due to road salt. You on the other hand will get to drive sooner I hope.

[fiacra]

yes...just tuning over no kick to start..

I think your right its a transplanted 73 1.7 motor in a 1974

at least its titled a 74 and 3 of the 4 vin id's say 74 the paper one in the door has been scratched out..

whatever it is its mine I was enjoying driving it and on;y tried to give it a fresh tune up, now i got nothing

I disagree. You don't have "nothing," you have an interesting puzzle to solve with a big reward at the end. I have yet to see that you have addressed the basics: that you have both spark and fuel. If you don't know how to test for those things it is time to do some research, or simply ask how to do it. I said it earlier, but if you have eliminated the low hanging fruit such as having the wrong firing order then it is time to pull out a trouble shooting flow chart and start working your way through it.

[thecleanoutking]

I hear you..

I really appreciate any and all input and I was driving it last week and loving it..

Just so frustrating because I've also owned a lot of VW's including currently a 73 VW Thing.

So in some ways, plugs, coil, wires distributor are somewhat familiar and the stuff I feel usually pretty comfortable changing out..

The one thing that's throwing me is the pointless points and the rev limiting rotor those I've never messed with..

And yes its perfect air-cooled weather in Florida right now, cooler nights and just right during the day to take the Targa top off and go for a ride..

Hopefully soon..

Thanks to you all for any and all help..

In regards to your frustration, you can indeed win. These cars can make you smile when they run right. I actually think they run quite well, but it involves an education to be sure. You may not know this so it is worth mentioning. The people responding to your questions are the real deal. They are experts and are at the same time generous with their time. We are guessing that it is a 1.7 in part because of the injectors. The big difference between 1.7 and 2.0 apart from the hard to see displacement difference is the shape of the cylinder heads. From the outside a 2.0 will have only three intake studs per head. The spark plug hole are also different as seen by holes in the engine tin. Where I live you would be looking at months before a possible drive due to road salt. You on the other hand will get to drive sooner I hope.

[Superhawk996]

Sorry to hear you are still having troubles.

May I suggest a reboot?

What exactly is the issue? Start with the basics: Is there spark? Is there fuel?

Let’s focus on spark for a moment since that was mostly what has been messed with by swapping wires, etc.

Do you have spark when cranking? Use a remote starter or an assistant. Check for spark at the plugs. If no spark at the plugs, do you have spark at the coil? If you don’t know how to do these checks, just ask, will post more details.

With respect to fuel? Do you hear the fuel pump cycle on for a couple seconds and then shut off when you turn the key on?

Why is this picture posted?

[thecleanoutking]

The issue is that it was running but the I decided to give her some love..

I changed the plugs, the wires, cap but the rotor and points were not normal looking or the same as the parts i ordered so I left the rotor and it has pointless points so I left them..

Now i've put the old wires back on cause the new ones the 1-2 side were too long anyway..

Now the fuel pump comes on but she turns over but won't fire..

As for check for spark I'm not sure how the best way to do that is by myself I could ask my wife to help..

On an old motorcycle I would take the plug out and hold it near steel and crank?? look for spark one plug..

not sure how on my car??

[Superhawk996]

As for check for spark I'm not sure how the best way to do that is by myself I could ask my wife to help..

On an old motorcycle I would take the plug out and hold it near steel and crank?? look for spark one plug..

not sure how on my car??

Agree - recruit wife to crank the car while you watch the plug. Best to do in garage, out of bright sunlight if at all possible.

Yes the motorcycle technique is the same. Remove the plug from head. Connect back into spark plug wire. Hold metal body of the spark plug to unpainted metal on engine. The fan shroud is a good ground.

Have her crank on your command and watch for spark. Ideal spark is bright blue. Weak spark is barely visible and yellowish. No spark . . . Well that is obviously the worst.

Wear leather gloves to hold plug and/or use insulated pliers to hold the plug so you don’t get a jolt.

[Superhawk996]

I’m also going to post what to do if you don’t have spark at the plug.

Next place would be check for spark at the coil.

Remove center wire from the distributor cap.

Hold that high voltage coil wire within about 1/8” of bare engine metal and watch for spark while wife cranks the car at your command.

The plated coil holder bracket that is bolted to the engine tin is a good place to hold the wire to.

[Superhawk996]

There is a way to do this alone with a remote starter switch.

I’m going to skip this because you probably don’t have one.

If you are like my wife and I, and connot work on a car without it turning into a shouting argument because she can’t follow basic directions, well I understand completely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Let me know and I’ll post details on the remote starter switch.

[sportlicherFahrer]

Noticed something in one of your previous photos that may responsible for your no start. The black wire with the bare terminal circled should be plugged in the the connector below it. The wire is your Cylinder Head Temp sensor. When disconnected it puts the mixture in a full rich state making starting almost impossible. Can be easily knocked loose when working near cylinder 3.

Another thing you will want to address in the near future is that leaky #4 injector(dampness around the body). Could be an engine fire waiting to happen.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-3945-1733498950.1.jpeg)

[Superhawk996]

Good eye

[thecleanoutking]

wow!!..Great eye..Thanks so much guys and yes I just noticed those two things as well first thing going check for spark and look at that black wire..

Then I'll address the wet spot by one injector, wasn't there when running cause I'm sure I looked around wondering if I bumped it..

Keep you posted..Thanks

[thecleanoutking]

sportlicherFahrer...Dude...your the friggin man...how you spotted that, is amazing.. was a bit hard to put back in and I need to crip it a bit it comes out easy.. but got it in STARTED RIGHT UP.. I'm so thankful..

dang that's amazing. Thanks all for not giving up on me..on to other stuff..

Noticed something in one of your previous photos that may responsible for your no start. The black wire with the bare terminal circled should be plugged in the the connector below it. The wire is your Cylinder Head Temp sensor. When disconnected it puts the mixture in a full rich state making starting almost impossible. Can be easily knocked loose when working near cylinder 3.

Another thing you will want to address in the near future is that leaky #4 injector(dampness around the body). Could be an engine fire waiting to happen.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-3945-1733498950.1.jpeg)

[emerygt350]

Excellent! Good eye superhawk.