LN Engineering 2563 Kit Options

[gandalf_025]

Believe it fits..

Kennedy did make an adapter …. Corvair runs backwards… reverse cam available or
flip the R+P.??

Plenty of parts available and cheap compared to Porsche..
High Rev..??? Not stock..

All sorts of options including big bore 3.0..and stroked to 3.3 for bigger money. They use those in airplanes..

Then there is this ….????!!!!

[mepstein]

OK, I’ll be the one to say it..

How about a Corvair big bore 3.0

Air cooled 6, easy and cheap compared to some
of the other options..

When I first signed onto 914World around 2010, there was a lot more talk about Corvair engines in 914's. I haven't heard of anyone pursuing it lately. I know they used to be pretty cheap but I'm not sure about easy. Fitting the trans, engine tin and mounting the engine are probably parts you need to fabricate. Reading over some of the threads back in 2010, I was convinced it wasn't the right option for me.

[JimVG]

Thanks to all for your input. I appreciate your time and consideration.

I have repeatedly been warned about the 2563 (2.5L) Type 4 builds being unreliable and susceptible to rotating assembly failure. In contrast, the 2270 (2.3L) Type 4 builds seem to be a better option.

My Type 4 build goal would be 160-170 HP with as much low-end torque as possible. I am not concerned with a high reving, high end torque curve, as my car will not see a lot of track/autox time.

The complete LN 2270-175 kit looks like a viable option for my purposes.

[technicalninja]

Believe it fits..

Kennedy did make an adapter …. Corvair runs backwards… reverse cam available or
flip the R+P.??

Plenty of parts available and cheap compared to Porsche..
High Rev..??? Not stock..

All sorts of options including big bore 3.0..and stroked to 3.3 for bigger money. They use those in airplanes..

Then there is this ….????!!!!

...And just like that The Ninja felt the change in room. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

Shit got REAL!

Thanks for the post!
That looks BAD ASSED!
Is it yours?

That looks "serious effort" in my book, degreed balancer, ITBs...
Any reported power numbers?
I'm especially interested in the torque numbers and rpm point.
Looks a tad bit skinnier than a 911 engine to me; might fit better.

I apologize to the OP for the thread drift, but you've got to admit it's any interesting one...

And, on second thought, the reverse rotation would BLOW it for me unless there was a proven way to build that engine to run backwards.
Changing rotation is usually harder than just a simple cam change. Corvair might be simple, most engines aren't in my experience.

Now, one of the most audacious tricks Smokey Yunik pulled off against NASCAR was he reversed the SBC (I believe) to assist handling "gyroscopically" for a car that only made left turns...
It worked! He was faster, NASCAR investigated and forced an engine build inspection.
He said "Fine, I build my engines under the surface of my parts washer for cleanliness." They watched him assemble the engine in the tank, pull it out, clear it and fire it up...
They never noticed the minor changes that allowed reverse rotation.
They did end up figuring it out!
Nascar has a specific rule dictating engine rotation now...

[zig-n-zag]

I checked out my rods and won’t be touching the rod bolts. I was mistaken on the torque specs on them, it is 29lbs.

The race balance is so precise, that at the bottom of the billet DTM pulley in the fan belt groove, tiny fractions of weight has been removed.

The DTM fan shroud makes it easier when going with a stroker crank in the type 4.

The 2563 engine is in the super hero class. That’s pretty much maxing out the type 4. Consider everything before deciding on what you want. For me, it was a go.

[zig-n-zag]

A 2270 with a 494 cam and dual 44’s will give a nice solid power band to 5500rpm. It matches up well with stock gears in the 914.

The 91 octane we have here has 10% ethanol. Target compression to run this in a daily driver for me would be 7.9 to 1 using Nickies.

[914werke]

The DTM fan shroud makes it easier when going with a stroker crank in the type 4.

I thought you couldn't fit one of the DTM shrouds under the Eng lid for the 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Jamie]

Believe it fits..

Kennedy did make an adapter …. Corvair runs backwards… reverse cam available or
flip the R+P.??

Plenty of parts available and cheap compared to Porsche..
High Rev..??? Not stock..

All sorts of options including big bore 3.0..and stroked to 3.3 for bigger money. They use those in airplanes..

Then there is this ….????!!!!

What is this? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

OK, I’ll be the one to say it..

How about a Corvair big bore 3.0

Air cooled 6, easy and cheap compared to some
of the other options..

When I first signed onto 914World around 2010, there was a lot more talk about Corvair engines in 914's. I haven't heard of anyone pursuing it lately. I know they used to be pretty cheap but I'm not sure about easy. Fitting the trans, engine tin and mounting the engine are probably parts you need to fabricate. Reading over some of the threads back in 2010, I was convinced it wasn't the right option for me.

Corvair engines DO fit. But you have a big issue to overcome. They spin the wrong way. People used to make reverse rotation cams for them, but I don't know that anyone does that any more. A decade ago they were hard to find, but if you looked you could find one NOS.

A decade ago parts were fairly cheap and plentiful. I don't know how much that's the case anymore. At the time it seemed things were drying up, but that may not be the case. Either way, right now this would be a unusual swap. Definitely easier in a VW with a traditional rear engine.

Zach

[burton73]

Just so you guys know:

Chevrolet produced around 1.8 million Corvair vehicles between 1960 and 1969:
1963: 254,571 Corvairs were produced
1966: 24,045 500 coupes and 12,497 Monza sedans were produced
1967: 9,257 500 coupes and 3,157 Monza sedans were produced
1968: 7,206 500 coupes were produced
1969: 6,000 Corvairs were produced, including 521 convertibles

I think Dr Evel was putting one in a bus but that would of been turning the right way

That was a very long time ago

Best Bob B

[mepstein]

I hardly ever see one on the road.

[JimVG]

I have researched the flat 6 conversion options, and could not justify a reasonable rebuild cost as 6 cylinder parts/components are significantly more expensive.

Please comment on current flat 6 experience and costs.

I'm a fabricator/conversion type of guy.

I'd prefer to stay T4 on a nice 75 I own but...

The cost per HP is too high on the T4 IMO. The Porsche 6 is even worse.

These air-cooled engines are far less forgiving regarding tune.

You have to be "spot on" with a T4 or disaster is in your future.

As for conversions the Subaru 4/6 looks like the best "bang for the buck".

I've been an import car technician for 4 decades and have done one too many head gaskets on them. Actually, I've done far more than "one to many".

Subaru fixed their issues, and they are better now.
They still get "deck plates" pressed into them when they are built for big boost!

I'm just NOT a Subaru guy...

My current candidates are the water-cooled Porsche 6 (still expensive) and the GM LGX high feature V6 (Camaros and RWD Cadillacs). This motor can be had used for 2K.
335 hp and a torque curve that looks fake. The VVT and direct injection gives that more than 250lbs/ft over a 5K range.

The LGX has not been done by anyone and is a technically challenging job.
Might be stupid!
Might not fit!

One IMPORTANT thing to remember is that the Germans tend to re-use stuff that works. There are a BUNCH of VAG (Volkswagen Auto Group) engines that will bolt up to the 901 transmissions.
Even the Bentley twin turbo W12 is supposed to mount up fine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

So, there might be a decent 4 or 6 cylinder VAG engine to use as a conversion donor.

I've found having the entire donor car for conversions is the way to go.
Buying a stripped engine from a junkyard and then tracking down the missing pieces is a PIA!

And I agree with Mepstein! Even doing it all yourself is NOT a financially sound plan.
You might get your "cost" back, but your time will be worth nothing...

You've got to love doing this stuff!

Good stuff! I have researched the Renegade V8 conversion and DIY V6 conversion. I just concluded that I want to stay Porsche. I like the idea of the built T4 because it is so common to do a flat 6/5-lug Fuchs conversion. I am not a dedicated track guy, and might autox the car a couple of times just for fun. I want low-end torque more than high-end HP. Some “spirited” street fun is what I hope to achieve.

[technicalninja]

I hardly ever see one on the road.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
But 914s are getting rare too!
So are S30 Datsuns, when is the last time you've seen a 240Z in the wild?

Every time I drive a Z I get lots of attention, thumbs up, and questions at the gas pumps.

That DIDN"T happen years ago...

[930cabman]

Thanks to all for your input. I appreciate your time and consideration.

I have repeatedly been warned about the 2563 (2.5L) Type 4 builds being unreliable and susceptible to rotating assembly failure. In contrast, the 2270 (2.3L) Type 4 builds seem to be a better option.

My Type 4 build goal would be 160-170 HP with as much low-end torque as possible. I am not concerned with a high reving, high end torque curve, as my car will not see a lot of track/autox time.

The complete LN 2270-175 kit looks like a viable option for my purposes.

I would say this is a wise choice. If Franz and the boys back at the plant wanted more CC's, they would have gotten them. Please report back with your results, we are very interested in seeing how things work out. Sure, (almost anybody) can stuff almost anything into anything, BUT, how much does the owner value reliability, originality, $$

[Superhawk996]

Sure, (almost anybody) can stuff almost anything into anything, BUT, how much does the owner value reliability, originality, $$

Bingo! Right on Cabman!

Each year there are fewer and fewer, unmolested, hacked up 914’s.

[technicalninja]

It's worth a look at the PMB option...

https://pmbperformance.com/products/pmb-225...e-914-4-1970-76

I'd want to get a price on one of the "complete" 2258 engines.

Saw a post that said, "Can be ordered with modern FI system designed specifically for it".

that LN kit is pricey enough to make an inquiry with PMB IMO.

That's the "easy" button here!

[JmuRiz]

corvair parked across the street from my house, and 2 others drive by regularly....go figure.

And you thought a porsche engine leaked a lot of oil....

[JeffBowlsby]

FWIW Clarks Corvairs used to be the go to for the reerse rotation parts

https://ssl.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.cgi

[Montreal914]

What about using a 901 from a 911 and convert it with the 914 side shift stuff and nose cone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Keep the reverse direction of the Corvair engine.

As for the right angle cooling setup, isn’t it what Chris Foley’s setup’s inspired of?

[technicalninja]

the 911 and the T4 rotate clockwise when viewed from the front of the engine (belt drive side) and this is the more common way.

This is why everything from a SBC to Subaru and even Ferrari will plug in and work.

The rotation direction stays the same through the transmission.

In the 911s case the tranny is designed to be in front of the engine the output shafts run in the opposite direction to the 914 transmissions. Reason for flipping the differential.

Transmissions with "straight cut" gears should be able to run either direction without too much fuss. Hewlands are often straight cut.

Straight cut is NOISY, bad bad noisy...
Fine for an all-out track car but often noisier than the engine at "street duty."

Almost all streetcar transmissions have helical cut gears. These are normally QUIET!

Helical cut gears have a drawback, side thrust. The trannies are designed for gear thrust in one direction. They ALSO have to be able withstand reverse thrust, engine compression deceleration, but they will often make more noise doing this.

I believe driving all the gears backwards all of the time will cause rapid transmission wear. Might do weird stuff with the syncros and sliders too.
I DO believe it would work!
Just not very long...

If I was contemplating reversing direction of rotation in a Porsche transmission, I do know who's opinion I would ask for...

Paging @Dr Evil (ok, why did that not work?)

Would you run a 901 or 915 with reverse rotation input?