Fred's 2375 Rebuild Thread Options

[technicalninja]

Oil spray on the pistons is a REQUIREMENT in my book!

If the H-beams don't have a dedicated oil squirter hole that mod should be done.

I'd actually looked into adding 911 style oil squirters. It can be done!

Cutting a groove in the H-beam is much simpler!

[friethmiller]

2 questions for the group:

1) What version of the 123 ignition is everyone running in their stroker Type 4s?

2) Who's the guy on Samba or whatever that modifies the type 4 rockers to allow for elephant feet?

Still in the planning stages here but I trying to document everything. Thanks in advance.

[technicalninja]

I bought a set of elephant feet adjusters for the late model rocker arms from 914sixer.

These are the big ones, 10mm I believe.

1/3rd the price of the 911 stuff and they don't require mods to work.

One spot the big adjusters MIGHT hit was the valve covers.

All you have to do is grind a bit off of the slotted end.

Another way to skin the cat...

[densible1]

using the 123 tune+ with bluetooth connectivity to phone app on the Type4 2270 stroker. Works great using carbs. Tweaking the advance timing curve helps get the carbs dialed in for different temp, elevation ranges.

mark

[VaccaRabite]

You are going all this way... New engine, electronic spark control, etc.
Stop dipping you toes into engine management.
Everything is available to make your engine fully fuel injected. Give it the Atkins diet!

Zach

[technicalninja]

You are going all this way... New engine, electronic spark control, etc.
Stop dipping you toes into engine management.
Everything is available to make your engine fully fuel injected. Give it the Atkins diet!

Zach

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I wouldn't build what you have and plan on running carbs...

They will work, just not nearly as well.

If I was planning on using carbs forever, I'd go lower on the compression ratio. 1/2 a point!

This "cheapy" simple version is 10 times better than carbs IMO.

https://tgadrivel.blogspot.com/2020/03/on-m...914-part-1.html

I'm positive I could hide that well enough to require a wizard to spot it (Hint for the SE).

The cheapy ECU is only $340!
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ampd-microsquirt/
You can find stuff even less expensive.

I'd go "full monte" with ITBs, 1000CC IDs, COP, and sequential everything on the big engine...

It would match the Tangerine exhaust (World Class) at that point!

Budget friendly ITBs are available.

The "Bad Ass system" ECU I would choose is $600...
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ms3pro-mini/

You'd still end up with 2K in your system.
Sell the Webers and 123 and maybe get 1/2 back...

[friethmiller]

All good suggestions, guys. I can’t thank (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif) and the rest of y’all enough for all the help & knowledge you have provided me up to this point. Awesome! Some of these bolt-on items that have been suggested might need to come later, though. I’m currently focused on setting things up with as much of my existing hardware as I can. I have zero working 914s at the moment. Not great. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I’d like to get my engine assembled correctly and running again as soon as practicable. If the case checks out, I’m going to be moving forward repairing what is necessary, buying parts as needed, and applying ceramic coating, etc.

[friethmiller]

No FREAKING way I'd install an oil pump without the double O-rings around the body.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif), so which after-market pumps have a double O-ring around the body?

[technicalninja]

I never researched oil pumps deeply enough to offer a recommendation.

It's the oil pump mounting that bugs me...

It is a SHITLOAD easier to draw air over oil, the pumps don't fit the case tightly enough to guarantee a seal on the intake side (vacuum) and ANY air bubbles at all is BAD FREAKING NEWS to any hydraulic system...

I don't care about small leakage from the discharge side.

I'd prefer individual O-rings around each port but that would make assembly VERY difficult.

@Superhawk996 displayed oil pumps with two large O-rings around the circumference of the pump in grooves outside of the ports.

That design does solve the air entrance issue perfectly and is a bunch easier to make and install over individual port O-rings.

I hope he can provide a suggestion here.

[Superhawk996]

Not sure about the reference to two seals. @technicalninja

I’m a fan of the original Type 4 pump with modification to pin the idler shaft. The T4 pump has 1 O-ring seal on the end plate internal to the pump. But let me be clear that T4 pumps are currently NLA and it is significant effort to find good T4 pumps. However they are still out there.

Link to tear down(s) of various T4 pumps.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...=2&t=338311

I think you might be referring to Gene Berg or someone else’s aftermarket mods for external O-rings on Type 1 pumps?

[cgnj]

I have used this supplier for Shadek O ringed oil pumps.
https://www.lowbugget.com/oil_pump.html

You have to call, no webstore.

[Superhawk996]

Just posting this from the linked website so that it is clear that putting an O-ring on the exterior of the pump affects assembly:

Info about O-Ring oil pumps.
You can not install a "O" Ring pump after the motor is assembled. The two case hafts must be placed around the pumps "O" Ring seal. If you try to install the pump you will damage the "O-Ring".

[friethmiller]

I have used this supplier for Shadek O ringed oil pumps.
https://www.lowbugget.com/oil_pump.html

You have to call, no webstore.

Just posting this from the linked website so that it is clear that putting an O-ring on the exterior of the pump affects assembly:

Info about O-Ring oil pumps.
You can not install a "O" Ring pump after the motor is assembled. The two case hafts must be placed around the pumps "O" Ring seal. If you try to install the pump you will damage the "O-Ring".

Good to know! I've been searching the Internet but found nothing. It looks like you can purchase online now, btw.

[Jack Standz]

Gene Berg hard anodized pump with o-ring. They sell 26mm and 30mm, full-flow or regular.

http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?c...products_id=405

[friethmiller]

Gene Berg hard anodized pump with o-ring. They sell 26mm and 30mm, full-flow or regular.

http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?c...products_id=405

What's with the plug? Can it be removed? Is this desired? I don't think I want to run my cooler lines through the pump. What about from the existing cooler in/out, like Tangerine Racing does? Curious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Gene Berg hard anodized pump with o-ring. They sell 26mm and 30mm, full-flow or regular.

http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?c...products_id=405

What's with the plug? Can it be removed? Is this desired? I don't think I want to run my cooler lines through the pump. What about from the existing cooler in/out, like Tangerine Racing does? Curious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

These are questions only you can answer. They revolve around whether you want a full flow oil system (meaning ALL) oil is forced through the oil filter regardless of pressure or temperatures.

I would suspect that Berg or others sell T1 non full flow O-ringed pump housing if you call and ask for that.

[friethmiller]

Gene Berg hard anodized pump with o-ring. They sell 26mm and 30mm, full-flow or regular.

http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?c...products_id=405

What's with the plug? Can it be removed? Is this desired? I don't think I want to run my cooler lines through the pump. What about from the existing cooler in/out, like Tangerine Racing does? Curious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

These are questions only you can answer. They revolve around whether you want a full flow oil system (meaning ALL) oil is forced through the oil filter regardless of pressure or temperatures.

I would suspect that Berg or others sell T1 non full flow O-ringed pump housing if you call and ask for that.

Right. So, if I'm running TR's Oil Pressure Relief valve + external cooler than I wouldn't want a full flow solution. I'm I thinking correctly?

[Jack Standz]

Type 1 VWs didn't originally come with an oil filter. Type IVs/914s did. A full flow oil pump was a way to add a filter and/or an external cooler to type 1s. Remember you're adapting a type 1 oil pump for use in a type iv.

It's your call to choose full-flow or not. You can swap out the oil filter console with an adapter to run an external filter and oil cooler. Personally and especially on larger motors, we run both.

Take a look here (or elsewhere):

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=297593

[Jack Standz]

Oil cooler adapter (one version):

https://lnengineering.com/billet-dtm-oil-cooler-adapt.html

[Superhawk996]

So, if I'm running TR's Oil Pressure Relief valve + external cooler than I wouldn't want a full flow solution. I'm I thinking correctly?

if you’re running the TR kit that mounts off the stock oil cooler location - that isn’t full flow. You would need an oil pump without the ports blocked.

Per Jack Standz comment - there really is no compelling reason to run full flow on a T4 street engine. I.e. T4 has an oil filter.