Fred's 2375 Rebuild Thread Options

[friethmiller]

Type 1 VWs didn't originally come with an oil filter. Type IVs/914s did. A full flow oil pump was a way to add a filter and/or an external cooler to type 1s. Remember you're adapting a type 1 oil pump for use in a type iv.

It's your call to choose full-flow or not. You can swap out the oil filter console with an adapter to run an external filter and oil cooler. Personally and especially on larger motors, we run both.

Take a look here (or elsewhere):

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=297593

Oil cooler adapter (one version):

https://lnengineering.com/billet-dtm-oil-cooler-adapt.html

So, if I'm running TR's Oil Pressure Relief valve + external cooler than I wouldn't want a full flow solution. I'm I thinking correctly?

if you’re running the TR kit that mounts off the stock oil cooler location - that isn’t full flow. You would need an oil pump without the ports blocked.

Per Jack Standz comment - there really is no compelling reason to run full flow on a T4 street engine. I.e. T4 has an oil filter.

Good stuff! That clarifies things for me, thanks!

[friethmiller]

Just talked to AJ at Lowbugget for about 20mins. He's sending me a 30mm non full-flow pump that has the o-ring. Their new e-shop lists the full-flow at $76; this one is without the plug and was $10 cheaper.

[Jack Standz]

Good job.

I'm interested if anyone has experienc?e with their oil pumps with two o-rings. Especially if they seal up well against the pump cover and don't leak? Or, if there's a meaningful difference with a single o-ring pump and a standard gasket between the pump and cover vs the double o-rings or is the second o-ring between the pump body and the case. Same question though. Does it work better than the single oring?

One other thing to be mindful of if you run a type 1 pump full flow on a 914. The oil line may interfere with the motor mount/boss. But there are work arounds and modifications that you can make.

[technicalninja]

Good job.

I'm interested if anyone has experience with their oil pumps with two o-rings. Especially if they seal up well against the pump cover and don't leak? Or, if there's a meaningful difference with a single o-ring pump and a standard gasket between the pump and cover vs the double o-rings.

Thank you, Jack!

I could have sworn I saw a picture of a two O-ring pump...

I'm watching what everyone else is posting as I didn't research the pumps "Ninja" style before I came to my senses and decided to "embrace the water" EXACTLY like Porsche themselves did...

It's still very interesting as it was a "Target" that I never "zeroed".

Everything that showed up was single O-ring (which will work fine as long as the front plate is sealed to the block, you don't actually need two IMO).

Made me distrust my memory...



And, I say "never more" but should a serious engine like this one "fall" into my hands I probably couldn't resist...



Suoerhawk's criticism of "can't install it without loosening case" IS something I would worry about.

I HOPE he is WRONG!!!!!!

That sort of "blows it" for assembly in my book.

I'd have ordered extra O-rings with the pump...

I'd do a "Mock" assembly with the case and pump. No O-ring on pump.
Lock case down and verify pump "slides in" with ZERO B.S. at all.
I'd expect "rifle bolt" type of fit. Trim case/pump of discrepancies/flashing.
Polish case bore with Schotz Brite.
Added O-ring and Smurf grease.
I'd want to be able to slide the pump into the case without major effort.
I'd want to be able to remove it reasonably well and NOT cut the O-ring at all.
Adding a radius/angle the entrance of the case bore and radiusing the oil ports in the case would be my "mods".
Sharp edges cut O-rings...

The oil trouble threads seemed like air entrainment is a MUCH bigger problem on these engines than others. The only obvious spot for this to happen is at the pickup into the case connection and the pump to case connection.

I'd ALSO use the brown pukky (3H) or something similar on the slide in pickup nipple too.

[flxzcat]

Since we are all spending your money, oil spray groove for rods.

Is this necessary on non-stock, H-Rods? Curious where this "v groove" is actually made. The diagram is a bit confusing, IMO. Anyone have a picture of this modification done on a rod?

This is pretty interesting as a poor man's oil squirter straight from the factory. Does anyone here have any further information on the effectiveness of squirting via a clearance notch at each side of the rod and rod bearing?



Cheers,
Paul

[technicalninja]

Just had a post from Jack Standz in my base circle thread about aluminum performance push rods.

OMG this is the way to go!

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/ACN-Heavy-Dut...p/acnhdalpr.htm

I believe this shop is no longer in business, but I'd search BIGTIME for those pushrods.

This is my PSA thread regarding base circles and steel pushrods.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=373021

I wouldn't build what you are building without those pushrods!

[friethmiller]

Quick update on things:

I took my case, crankshaft, heads, etc up to Eric at Automotive Machine & Supply on Saturday. I'm currently waiting on his assessment on the condition of the case, heads, and crankshaft before I make any final decisions. He did say the cylinders needed to be bored oversize to fix the damage (no surprise there). So, even if I go with my KB pistons that are still in good shape, I'd need new cylinders. After getting back home, I realized I actually still have my original 1.8L 93mm cylinders. They were a little rusty but in remarkable good condition. So, I decided to clean, blast, and repaint them. I think these can be bored out to 96mm, correct?

[930cabman]

it's about 60 thou/wall. Doesn't sound like much, but the wall thickness can be a weak link with these engines. I have wondered about opening 96 cylinders up to maybe 100?

Hopefully the experts will chime in here

[friethmiller]

it's about 60 thou/wall. Doesn't sound like much, but the wall thickness can be a weak link with these engines. I have wondered about opening 96 cylinders up to maybe 100?

Hopefully the experts will chime in here

Curious. I checked the wall thickness between my German 93mm and my aftermarker 96mm cylinders.

Wall thickness:
96mm = 4.5 mm
93mm = 6 mm



This makes sense with +3mm boring. That's why the larger pistons (>96mm) need head work. They must use the entire top of the available cylinders sleeve. Not sure how they get the head bolts to clear. It must be very close or the cylinder is relieved to provide room. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Here are 100mm Nickies you can see head stud relief

[friethmiller]

Here are 100mm Nickies you can see head stud relief

Just a wee bit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[930cabman]

Here are 100mm Nickies you can see head stud relief

all good information, what is the wall thickness with these?

I am sure Jake (and others) have researched this topic, cylinder wall thickness and have found a number to shoot for.

[Superhawk996]

Here are 100mm Nickies you can see head stud relief

all good information, what is the wall thickness with these?

I am sure Jake (and others) have researched this topic, cylinder wall thickness and have found a number to shoot for.

In storage but I’d guess about 6-8mm. But they are aluminum. Steel is stronger and could be very thin (like 1-2mm) and resist cylinder pressure, the problem is that at thin sections the steel can’t resist thermal deformations and keep a cylinder straight and true. Likewise as the wall thickness decreases, you’re going to have sealing issues at the head / cylinder interface.

It’s pretty well documented 96mm is the upper bound for bored OEM cylinders. Both by Porsche via design (at 94mm) and the decades of real world testing of those that tried to go larger but did so at the expense of reliability. Likewise, tons of reliable engines at 96mm.

Why play Russian roulette trying to bore OEM larger than 96mm?

[technicalninja]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Jake Raby mentioned that 96mm was the "limit" on torque/or HP (might have been misdirection on Raby's part- I believe I've noticed misdirection in other posts of his) without dual spark plugs (which sounds like a PIA to deal with).

What I'd like is 96MM bores in thicker wall cylinders that doubled/tripled the contact with the head.

This WOULD require boring both the head castings and block for the larger OD jugs.

This is how all of the big bore stuff is done.

That skinny ass contact area between a stock OD 96mm bore cylinder is one of the MAJOR weak links in this engine in my book!

I LOVE Superhawk's Nickies!

Nice and FAT!