Importance of matching numbers?, Chassis, engine, and transaxle zerial numbers Options

[rtmchale2]

I'm curious to get the 914 communities thoughts on how important to resell value it is to keep chassis, engine, and transaxle numbers matching as the car rolled off the factory line. I purchased a project 1973 914, back story suggests all numbers are matching. Current engine is a 1.7L, if I had a chance I would consider putting in a 2.0L, but only if that does decrease value on factory restoration project.

I gather from going through the forums that in doing a factory restoration project, that the project will have better value at the end in sticking with factory options for the car as close as possible. Or is that all just made up and at the end of the day the quality of the restoration will have a bigger impact to future value?

Curious to get the communities thoughts on this.

[BillJ]

Without question if you are looking to preserve originality with a mind to resale value then keep it all stock and numbers matching.

[technicalninja]

It all depends on condition...

73/74 seem to be the most popular/valuable years and if you really have a survivor, it may be worth a proper restoration.

Tell us a bit about you and your level of "wrenching".

German, air-cooled experience?

Your reason for choosing the 914 is important as well.

What do you want out of the car?

A 1.7 stock car in nice condition is a wonderful investment.

However, it's slower than almost anything you can buy today...

Pics of your new critter would be appreciated.

RUST is the enemy!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

[mepstein]

All depends who you are building it for. We build engines, trans and cars for customers. They get what they want. My cars are built for me without any thought for resale values.

[rtmchale2]

Love the perspectives. I am new to air cooled Porsche, new to 914's. Always loved the car though, somewhat of a young me dream to own one. Plenty of experience restoring American muscle cars over the years, Porsche will be a fun new experience. I'm encouraged by the 914 community so far, quite helpful and open to new comers.

Not sure if I would sale after after restorations, mostly likely not after the time I plan to spend on the restoration.

Plan on stripping it down to the steel and building back from there. In no hurry to finish the project, looking forward to the journey and have plenty of patience to achieve the outcome.

[rtmchale2]

It all depends on condition...

73/74 seem to be the most popular/valuable years and if you really have a survivor, it may be worth a proper restoration.

Tell us a bit about you and your level of "wrenching".

German, air-cooled experience?

Your reason for choosing the 914 is important as well.

What do you want out of the car?

A 1.7 stock car in nice condition is a wonderful investment.

However, it's slower than almost anything you can buy today...

Pics of your new critter would be appreciated.

RUST is the enemy!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

I actually bought two critters! a 75 and 73. Each has challenges with rust in the usual places, will require some panel replacements. But bodies are in great shape, both definitely have potential as a solid restoration.

Have always loved 914's, just something about them. looking for a fun driver, something that I can be proud of after the restoration. Level of "wrenching", comforatable with fab, welding, body work, engine work, the whole bit. Grew the son of a mechanic working on cars all summer long, restoring plenty of cars with my dad. The project is sure to bring back memories.

[Pat Garvey]

I'm curious to get the 914 communities thoughts on how important to resell value it is to keep chassis, engine, and transaxle numbers matching as the car rolled off the factory line. I purchased a project 1973 914, back story suggests all numbers are matching. Current engine is a 1.7L, if I had a chance I would consider putting in a 2.0L, but only if that does decrease value on factory restoration project.

I gather from going through the forums that in doing a factory restoration project, that the project will have better value at the end in sticking with factory options for the car as close as possible. Or is that all just made up and at the end of the day the quality of the restoration will have a bigger impact to future value?

Curious to get the communities thoughts on this.

I've never seen a 914 COA list te engine number or transaxle numbers. Chassis, yes. Equipment, vague. If it says a 1.7 motor, it came with a 1.7.

When I say "vague" equipment it's up to the reader. My COA says I have Norwegian Equipment. It was delivered to Cincinnati.

They didn't much effort into the lowly 914.

[wonkipop]

I'm curious to get the 914 communities thoughts on how important to resell value it is to keep chassis, engine, and transaxle numbers matching as the car rolled off the factory line. I purchased a project 1973 914, back story suggests all numbers are matching. Current engine is a 1.7L, if I had a chance I would consider putting in a 2.0L, but only if that does decrease value on factory restoration project.

I gather from going through the forums that in doing a factory restoration project, that the project will have better value at the end in sticking with factory options for the car as close as possible. Or is that all just made up and at the end of the day the quality of the restoration will have a bigger impact to future value?

Curious to get the communities thoughts on this.

I've never seen a 914 COA list te engine number or transaxle numbers. Chassis, yes. Equipment, vague. If it says a 1.7 motor, it came with a 1.7.

When I say "vague" equipment it's up to the reader. My COA says I have Norwegian Equipment. It was delivered to Cincinnati.

They didn't much effort into the lowly 914.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

likely reason is that the more detailed records are with VW in their archives.
with the caveat this would apply to the 4 cylinder models.
the 4s were entirely produced under VW at the karmann factory using VW production protocols (same as applied to all VW models).
its very likely that 914/4s used build sheets that were VW format.
photos i have looked at of the 914 production line seem to show this prpduction sheet may have been on the cars as they came down the line. usually it was taped to the outside of one of the doors on the side of the body. but that build sheet would have only had the production number (sometimes called the karmann number) on it and the build details. the Vin, engine and gearbox numbers would not have been recorded until the end of the line when the car was complete and assigned its vin number.
somewhere in their archives would be the final data entries with engine numbers and gearbox numbers.

i think COAs from porsche access porsche data held in the porshe archives which would contain all the data from the final 914/6 build at the end of the stuttgart production line.

porsche supplied COAs for 914/4s are likely drawn up with access to some other filing system that VW holds but does not contain the engine numbers.

some cars had their owners manuals filled in diligently by the dealers when the car was sold new. this had provision for filling in the engine number for the warranty page.
but not all dealers properly filled in that section of the manual. if they did you could trust that information in terms of "numbers matching".


regarding the question of value.
i think when it comes to the question of the humble 4s, so called numbers matching would really only matter in rare examples of excellent original condition survivor cars,
and by that i mean original everything. paint etc. unrestored. low miles. those cars have it seems been of interest to serious collectors. few and far between.
i don't think it matters when it comes to restoring a 914 whether its faithful to how it came out the factory door, its more about the quality of the restoration and the car itself generally speaking.

6s of course are an entirely different matter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

drive em and enjoy em. neither gasoline or us are going to be here forever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

I'm curious to get the 914 communities thoughts on how important to resell value it is to keep chassis, engine, and transaxle numbers matching as the car rolled off the factory line. I purchased a project 1973 914, back story suggests all numbers are matching. Current engine is a 1.7L, if I had a chance I would consider putting in a 2.0L, but only if that does decrease value on factory restoration project.

I gather from going through the forums that in doing a factory restoration project, that the project will have better value at the end in sticking with factory options for the car as close as possible. Or is that all just made up and at the end of the day the quality of the restoration will have a bigger impact to future value?

Curious to get the communities thoughts on this.

I've never seen a 914 COA list te engine number or transaxle numbers. Chassis, yes. Equipment, vague. If it says a 1.7 motor, it came with a 1.7.

When I say "vague" equipment it's up to the reader. My COA says I have Norwegian Equipment. It was delivered to Cincinnati.

They didn't much effort into the lowly 914.

ps

"norwegian equipment" = (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
bet thats a typo by the secretary filling out the COA.
maybe a german secretary back in the day of early COAs?
probably meant to say "north american equipment" which would have been a VW M-code number listed on the production order form (build sheet).
M553 meant "north american equipment".
often that number was stamped in white paint on the side of the engine tin as well as recorded on the build sheet.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[wonkipop]

I'm curious to get the 914 communities thoughts on how important to resell value it is to keep chassis, engine, and transaxle numbers matching as the car rolled off the factory line. I purchased a project 1973 914, back story suggests all numbers are matching. Current engine is a 1.7L, if I had a chance I would consider putting in a 2.0L, but only if that does decrease value on factory restoration project.

I gather from going through the forums that in doing a factory restoration project, that the project will have better value at the end in sticking with factory options for the car as close as possible. Or is that all just made up and at the end of the day the quality of the restoration will have a bigger impact to future value?

Curious to get the communities thoughts on this.

I've never seen a 914 COA list te engine number or transaxle numbers. Chassis, yes. Equipment, vague. If it says a 1.7 motor, it came with a 1.7.

When I say "vague" equipment it's up to the reader. My COA says I have Norwegian Equipment. It was delivered to Cincinnati.

They didn't much effort into the lowly 914.

this is one of the best confirming documents i have ever seen for a 914.
better than any COA porsche would give you.
its for a tourist delivered 914 for a hawaian resident who ordered his car for a tourist pick up at the karmann factory and after a tour around europe with it, had it shipped back to the USA. lists the engine number along with the chassis (Vin) number.
karmann factory direct sales invoice/order form.
even the USA dealer windscreen printouts that came with the new cars in north america did not list the engine numbers.
but the information was obviously there somewhere in the karmann records.
these days hopefully all the karmann archive has been transferred to VW to either its museum or archived following the closure of the karmann works earlier this century.

[JeffBowlsby]

Nice find Michael!

[davep]

That invoice is a wonderful document, and a superb find.
The CoA or PPS from PCNA is not the greatest of documents, and generally has a few errors or omissions. The factory data that I have access to does not include the transmission #, and thus the CoA will generally not have the trans # either. In fact, when I see a trans # on a CoA or PPS I wonder where they got that information from.
The country code is also a bit tricky since at one time the code C13 was used for California, New York and possibly Puerto Rico; at some point C03 became California and C13 became Finland. Someone at PCNA did not realize that C13 had changed definition and thus a lot of early 914 & 914/6 were said to have Finland equipment. Many other countries also had changing codes, so there are challenges to keep up with the changes.
The data I get has the engine serial # and it is up to me to determine the engine type from the model # or from the range near the VIN in my database.