Front tires rubbing inside in tight turns Options

[SVG223]

The good news, your fenders look fine.


However, what the heck is going on with your suspension? The top rubber is completely whacked on both sides.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Do you have the car jacked up in the air on both sides with the suspension hanging freely?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Yes, I do. I have the inspection plate off checking a small fuel leak after reinstalling the tank.

[SirAndy]

The good news, your fenders look fine.
However, what the heck is going on with your suspension? The top rubber is completely whacked on both sides.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Do you have the car jacked up in the air on both sides with the suspension hanging freely?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Yes, I do. I have the inspection plate off checking a small fuel leak after reinstalling the tank.

So, stupid question then, is it rubbing with the car in the air or is it rubbing when it's sitting on the ground?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[SVG223]

The good news, your fenders look fine.
However, what the heck is going on with your suspension? The top rubber is completely whacked on both sides.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Do you have the car jacked up in the air on both sides with the suspension hanging freely?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Yes, I do. I have the inspection plate off checking a small fuel leak after reinstalling the tank.

So, stupid question then, is it rubbing with the car in the air or is it rubbing when it's sitting on the ground?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I see an area in the fender well where the tire has been scraping towards the cabin. Which is the opposite side from where it is touching in the photos while suspended in air. I was thinking it had something to do with the Caster angle.

[SirAndy]

I see an area in the fender well where the tire has been scraping towards the cabin. Which is the opposite side from where it is touching in the photos while suspended in air. I was thinking it had something to do with the Caster angle.

From the picture you posted of the top plate, your caster looks fine, it's not excessive.

Do you know for certain that the rubbing evidence you see in the wheel well is fresh?
It's not uncommon to see some rubbing towards the rear end of the front wheel well (in a sharp turn at speed when the outside wheel is unloaded), but you should never see any rubbing towards the front while the car is on the ground.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[SVG223]

I see an area in the fender well where the tire has been scraping towards the cabin. Which is the opposite side from where it is touching in the photos while suspended in air. I was thinking it had something to do with the Caster angle.

From the picture you posted of the top plate, your caster looks fine, it's not excessive.

Do you know for certain that the rubbing evidence you see in the wheel well is fresh?
It's not uncommon to see some rubbing towards the rear end of the front wheel well (in a sharp turn at speed when the outside wheel is unloaded), but you should never see any rubbing towards the front while the car is on the ground.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Here is a picture of the rub mark. It is down to the metal and I don't see any rust film.

[Front yard mechanic]

I think I have a solution (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) if you want to drive in tight circles just use the jeep

[SVG223]

I think I have a solution (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) if you want to drive in tight circles just use the jeep

I can do that, but I'd rather drive in tight circles in my 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[burton73]

Best Bob B


[/quote]
Just parking, and U-turns. I don't think I want to limit my steering range. I will need to think about this for a bit. I may back off of the caster some. I may try a small wheel spacer. Not sure.
[/quote]

It really doesn't matter it just limits the steering rack from going past a given point. You can not feel any difference except it won't scrape

[Dave_Darling]

This is common with 195-width or wider tires. Most of us just keep in mind that we don't want to crank the wheel all the way over at anything more than very very very slow speeds.

--DD

[SVG223]

This is common with 195-width or wider tires. Most of us just keep in mind that we don't want to crank the wheel all the way over at anything more than very very very slow speeds.

--DD

Thanks for that info! I will check my bolt length for use with a small spacer.

[SVG223]

Now I'm thinking about having my alignment changed.
Negative camber should pull the tire a little, maybe -.5 degrees
Backing off of the caster, maybe to 4 degrees.
I'm curious about the setup others have with no contact, maybe 0 caster.

[Geezer914]

It looks like your upper camber plate bushings are worn???

[Superhawk996]

I'm curious about the setup others have with no contact, maybe 0 caster.

Zero caster isn’t an option unless you enjoy the wobbly shopping cart wheel phenomenon in the vehicle you drive. Zero caster also destroys steering wheel return ability.

Adding wheel spacers to front only will increase understeer and will increase scrub radius making steering feel heavier. Increased scrub in conjunction with zero caster would lead toward even more steering instability.

[Superhawk996]

It looks like your upper camber plate bushings are worn???

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) With both Geezer and SirAndy - upper mounts don’t look right.

There is supposed to be a metal sleeve in the center of the bushing. Almost looks as if you may be lacking that metal sleeve and it’s allowing a lot of movement of the strut rod.

[SVG223]

I'm curious about the setup others have with no contact, maybe 0 caster.

Zero caster isn’t an option unless you enjoy the wobbly shopping cart wheel phenomenon in the vehicle you drive. Zero caster also destroys steering wheel return ability.

Adding wheel spacers to front only will increase understeer and will increase scrub radius making steering feel heavier. Increased scrub in conjunction with zero caster would lead toward even more steering instability.

Good info I definitely won't be changing to zero caster. The easiest thing to try would be a 3/8 spacer with a longer set of bolts. Not sure if that would be enough to prevent contact with the fender well or not. If the steering is too heavy I could always take it off

[Superhawk996]

This is common with 195-width or wider tires.

--DD

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) These vehicles came on 165’s. 195’s are over an inch wider. These vehicles also had a lot of build variation in the chassis so it shouldn’t be surprising that while 195’s may barely fit one vehicle on stock Fuch’s, they may very well rub on another.

There is plenty of grip available in 185’s especially with modern rubber.

I’d seriously consider going to 185’s if you rule out the tire rub being related to worn suspension.

[SVG223]

It looks like your upper camber plate bushings are worn???

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) With both Geezer and SirAndy - upper mounts don’t look right.

There is supposed to be a metal sleeve in the center of the bushing. Almost looks as if you may be lacking that metal sleeve and it’s allowing a lot of movement of the strut rod.

Oh wow! If that is the case, that will fix many issues. I will see if I can order a stainless steel pipe of the right dimensions. Thanks, guys!

[rhodyguy]

Avoiding turning the steering wheel to ‘full lock’ should help with the rub issue. When all is said and done the tie rods should be as parallel to the horizon as possible. This helps to avoid the dreaded bump steer. Get your front end where you want it before an alignment. Source some sims for the rear too. Look for a referral for a shop that knows their way around a 914. A every day tire shop is not the way to go. I think there is a 4 wheel alignment in your future.

[SVG223]

It looks like your upper camber plate bushings are worn???

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) With both Geezer and SirAndy - upper mounts don’t look right.

There is supposed to be a metal sleeve in the center of the bushing. Almost looks as if you may be lacking that metal sleeve and it’s allowing a lot of movement of the strut rod.

Oh wow! If that is the case, that will fix many issues. I will see if I can order a stainless steel pipe of the right dimensions. Thanks, guys!

Here is a picture with the nut off. I'm going to look for pictures to compare.

[Superhawk996]

Here is a picture with the nut off. I'm going to look for pictures to compare.

Little hard to tell from the picture but I think it is there (red arrow)

You can double check by sticking a magnet to the inner part of the bushing assuming it it’s there like it appears.

Good to verify it like you are though - sure looks a little wonky in the initial pictures that the guys commented on.

Once you put the washer and but back on verify there is no slop.