percentage and heritage, vw/porsche Options

[davep]

QUOTE (bottomend @ Oct 12 2005, 12:32 AM)

I just pulled out my 901 tranny and it had a nice little VW stamp on it...

So, who cares. There is a Fuchs fox icon on the Fuchs rims. There are Bosch logos all over various electrical parts. There are Hella logos on the lenses. There are ATE logos on the brake calipers. I could go on. The facts are that many suppliers, including VW, provided parts for the 914. Karmann, not VW, built the 914 and many 911's and 356's before that. VW-Porsche was a joint venture between the two until 1974 when Porsche bought out the VW share.

The facts of the matter, if not the point of the discussion, is that if you want to scavange parts off of VW's to use on the 914 you won't find too many. A good number of the interchageable parts are not VW exclusive parts either.

99.9% and 100% is just plain (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/stromberg.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (davep @ Oct 12 2005, 10:06 AM)

...if you want to scavange parts off of VW's to use on the 914 you won't find too many.

i think you'll find you can use parts from any mid-engine VW of the period :-)...

[davep]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Oct 12 2005, 06:14 AM)

i think you'll find you can use parts from any mid-engine VW of the period :-)...

That I'll agree 100% with. Lets see now, that would be models....?

[eric914]

The PET lists 3667 parts for all years of 914 of that:

1372 have a 914 prefix
849 have a 900 prefix
289 have a 901 prefix
80 have a 911 prefix

So roughly 71% of the parts have Porsche derived part numbers

[TROJANMAN]

that's pretty interesting. thanks

[Flat VW]

QUOTE (davep @ Oct 12 2005, 06:35 AM)

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Oct 12 2005, 06:14 AM) i think you'll find you can use parts from any mid-engine VW of the period :-)... That I'll agree 100% with. Lets see now, that would be models....?

Proto #4




John (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/w00t.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (davep @ Oct 12 2005, 10:35 AM)

... that would be models....?

all under Type 47 :-)

[davep]

Are you Turning a new Leaf Rich?

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (eric914 @ Oct 12 2005, 11:24 AM)

The PET lists 3667 parts for all years of 914 of that: 1372 have a 914 prefix 849 have a 900 prefix 289 have a 901 prefix 80 have a 911 prefix So roughly 71% of the parts have Porsche derived part numbers

not least of which was 914.501.003.11 ...

i agree VW bought a lot of Porsche parts for that car :-)

911's from G-series (at least) use the 914 part number steering rack, because it was a newer, better, simpler design.

this came up in another, unrelated thread. The Geo Prizm and some kinda Toyota are the same car. are they all Geo's, or are they all Toyotas?

or are they what the badge on the back says?

going back a few messages...

in the 356 days, Karmann was just the coachbuilder - IIRC the vehicle was assembled on the Porsche production line in Zuffenhausen/Ludwigsburg.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (davep @ Oct 12 2005, 12:48 PM)

Are you Turning a new Leaf Rich?

same old leaf. my positions haven't changed on this subject since i first got into Porsche ownership in 1975.

the 914 was sold in RoW as a VW, but it was sold into North America - where i live - as a Porsche. not even a hyphenated Porsche. a lot of people in PCA didn't like it. perhaps under pressure from VWoA (the Porsche importer at the time) perhaps not - it's irrelevant - PCA decreed "a Porsche is whatever Porsche says it is."

so basically, i don't care. i've never cared. i've always liked the car, whatever it is.

as i've said several times before, my preference is for the /6's, but i do not consider the /4's "lesser cars" - they're just different cars.

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Oct 12 2005, 08:52 AM)

this came up in another, unrelated thread. The Geo Prizm and some kinda Toyota are the same car. are they all Geo's, or are they all Toyotas?

Toyota Corolla, and they're all made at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, California. So, they're not even "Japanese" cars...

Back to the subject at hand...

Part numbers alone don't mean all that much. The steering column surround, keyswitch, and turn signal stalk on my '71 914/4 look astonishingly like the same parts on my '69 VW Type III. The 914 parts all have 914 part numbers, and the Type III parts all have 311 part numbers, but they're completely interchangable as far as I can tell.

Some of the people on the 912 board will really get their backs up when you suggest that the Type 616 (the 912 engine) is a VW engine. It's not, it's a derivation of the 40hp Type I. Lots of changes, but the bloodline is very clear. And the original Type I was designed by Herr Doktor Porsche, so why get upset when someone suggests it's a VW? It's considered sheer heresy to install a pumped up Type I into a 912 (or a 356), yet you can barely tell the difference between the two engines from 5 feet away. With the engine lid down and the car running, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference at all. Heresy...

In any case, none of this is really directed at you, Trojanman. Your original question sounded exactly like the usual opening gambit for someone who has a bug up their ass about the whole VW/Porsche thing. Usually, it's the Porsche people who are overly sensitive about the connection, for no good reason.

[davep]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Oct 12 2005, 09:03 AM)

QUOTE (davep @ Oct 12 2005, 12:48 PM) Are you Turning a new Leaf Rich? same old leaf. my positions haven't changed on this subject since i first got into Porsche ownership in 1975.

rich herzog
Group: Members
Posts: 5227
Member No.: 513
Joined: 4-April 03
Location:
Turning Leaf, PA

no longer Steamboat Springs, PA

Anyway, the 914 is a 914. Perhaps neither a VW nor a Porsche. I'm happy with what it is.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (davep @ Oct 12 2005, 01:24 PM)

no longer Steamboat Springs, PA

ah. that. well - it never said Steamboat Springs, PA, actually...
what it *actually* said was Steambath Springs, PA.

i've been changing that location off and on since my move to PA.
for a long time, it indicated "Swamplands, PA" because there was *so* much rain.
then, with the arrival of winter, i changed it to "Salted Roads, PA."

most of August and all of September were very hot and humid, so i changed it to Steambath Springs, PA.

but with the arrival of autumn, cooler days, and the many trees changing colors around me, i decided it was time for an update so: "Turning Leaf, PA" i wonder where i'll be next :-)

[TROJANMAN]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Oct 12 2005, 09:15 AM)

In any case, none of this is really directed at you, Trojanman.  Your original question sounded exactly like the usual opening gambit for someone who has a bug up their ass about the whole VW/Porsche thing.

no worries. i've always known the histoy of the car, but was just really curious about porsche/vw percentage.


is it still a porsche/vw if i put a subaru engine in it?
some other cars with identity crisis:
prism/corrolla, vibe/matrix, subaru/saab, etc....................................

[Hammy]

That's funny about old PCA members not considering the 911 a Porsche. It seems to me, nowadays at least, when someone says Porsche, although there are other models, a 911 generally is pictured in one's mind. Such as the conversation I had with my sister. "I like your car, it's cool, I'd just never heard of it before. That one other Porsche is real cool though."
'911?' (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)
"Yeah!"
Not to say I don't think 911's are great too.
Also, last night I happened to run into "Porsche buyers guide" in the bookstore. I flipped to the 914 entry, and although in the text it clearly stated it was a joint operation of VW/Porsche, it was still clearly praised as a very agile mid-engined Porsche.

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Oct 12 2005, 09:55 AM)

some other cars with identity crisis: prism/corrolla, vibe/matrix, subaru/saab, etc....................................

Well, Prizm/Corolla is simply caused by GM's apparently inability to engineer good small cars. The Corolla existed before the Prizm, and the Prizm is only a badge. The Vibe/Matrix is simply more of the same, though perhaps more of a joint venture between GM and Toyota.

The Soob/Saab story, don't even get me started. GM has killed Saab as a car company, and they'll probably end up killing Subaru, too.

Many US Fords are really Mazdas, yet very few European Fords become US Fords, even though there's a lot of overlap. The US Escort, for example, was never the same car as the European Escort. They brought the Euro Fiesta over briefly to help the first major gas crisis, but during the second crisis, they used the Mazda 121 as the Festiva, rather than just bring over the Fiesta again, which was still being produced. They have a great small car now: the Ka, which would probably sell very well here now, but have no plans to import it from Europe, and seem more interested in use Japanese market Mazdas instead.

Badge engineering and identity crisis cars have existed for a long time. The "BMW" Isetta, for example, was really an Innocenti design, which BMW licensed. Innocenti themselves licensed and built Mini and Midgets (only better made than the British versions).

The VW/Porsche story is a lot more complicated than joint ventures or corporate raiding. From the way this is going, they'll end up the same company within a few years, what with Porsche buying up 20% of VW as an "anti-takeover" measure.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Oct 12 2005, 02:37 PM)

GM has killed Saab as a car company, and they'll probably end up killing Subaru, too.

they better hurry; GM just sold their stake in Subaru to Toyota ...

[Brian Mifsud]

Hey, at least the 914 is actually 100% German made, unlike the modern "Porsches".... was it Iceland where the Boxsters are made????

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (Brian Mifsud @ Oct 12 2005, 04:17 PM)

...was it Iceland where the Boxsters are made????

Finland.

Valmet is a highly respected manufacturing facility.
actually, a lot of good stuff comes out of Finland -- Nokia is Finnish.

and - unfortunately, nowadays, the Germans have had their own quality-control issues.

but it is the age of multinational content.

you talk about Japanses technology, you get radios.
you talk about German technology, you get automobiles.
you talk about American technology, you get Japanese radios in German cars ...

[TROJANMAN]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Oct 12 2005, 12:23 PM)

you talk about Japanses technology, you get radios. you talk about German technology, you get automobiles. you talk about American technology, you get Japanese radios in German cars ...

remember blaupunkt? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)