Subaru transmission installation, Now it's a reality!!! Options

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 23 2006, 04:14 PM)

QUOTE (Marty Yeoman @ Jan 23 2006, 05:12 PM) Why not "dry sump" it? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) I "think" the idea is to do a Subaru conversion "on the cheap" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) prices are continuing to go up on these projects (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

I want to do this conversion nicely at a fair price. Oem quality - not cobbled together and not polished billet, just well designed.
Steve

[Porcharu]

Back to axles - the oil pan is easy. I'm suprised no one has mentioned the speedo drive. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)

[mightyohm]

QUOTE (srbliss @ Jan 23 2006, 07:34 PM)

I want to do this conversion nicely at a fair price. Oem quality - not cobbled together and not polished billet, just well designed. Steve

I think more people should share your way of thinking. "OEM-like" is what I shoot for also. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap56.gif)

[Twystd1]

You guys might want to look at what Lance Nist has for sale as far as oil pans and very well thought out Hi-Perf parts from Pantera Specialists.

He is a very good Suby R&D guy as well as all around performance junky. For 30 years that I know of.

Guy and has more knowledge about after market FI than ANYONE I have ever met.

He also has a 700 HP turbo Suby sitting on his dyno as I write this.

Now thats a dream sequence in itself.........................

He also has a complete aftermarket EFI with Ignition that may be of some interest to us Type 4 guys.

If ya look at about 2 pictures down on this page (BELOW URL)

(IMG:http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/car.gif)SUBY STUFF

You will see a cast aluminum oil pan that is about 4 1/2 inches deep. it also comes with bungs for dry sump or vaccum evacuation of the crank case.

It also helps tie in the block as it is strong enough to be a structural piece of the engine case.

My machinist friend built the molds for it.. very nice piece if you need under the car clearence.

Me thinks I can get most of this stuff for the team at better than retail.. (I think)



The reason I bring Lance up in this conversation.. Is that he is smart.. And ALL of his stuff has been R&Ded on a dyno AND on real street and race cars.

Just more stuff to provoke the imagination of us Teener Junkys....

Regards,

(IMG:http://www.freewebspace.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/car.gif)SUBY STUFF

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Jan 23 2006, 10:34 PM)

You will see a cast aluminum oil pan that is about 4 1/2 inches deep. it also comes with bungs for dry sump or vaccum evacuation of the crank case. It also helps tie in the block as it is strong enough to be a structural piece of the engine case. My machinist friend built the molds for it.. very nice piece if you need under the car clearence.

Cool stuff.
I think I have seen that pan being sold by someone else. One version had a clear plastic bottom.

[GS Guy]

I like that pan too. It looks like it'll fit the Small Car engine mount I'm using, which (FYI) brings the engine mounting point out to the timing belt end of the engine, instead of the flywheel end. It uses the original engine mounting points to locate steel mounting bars on either side of the oil pan - but doesn't allow for a wider pan to be used. These might be of interest if you want to use a simple mounting bar at the "front" of the engine (but unfortunately not inexpensive).
I'd like to see what kind of internal baffling that pan uses, the bottom plate, maybe some installed pics? Guess I'll drop a line to Pantera Specialists. Thanks for the link!
And I thought I'd seen every pan available for Subaru conversions - there must be a dozen different varieties!

On the axles - I know Todd @ Precision custom manufactures chromoly flanges to accept T2 and 930 sized CV joints, and sure he could weld a set of these to a pair of Subaru output stubs. Not sure how that would affect the strength though. Probably better to utilize the inner portion of the original Suby CV/splined section, machine it down to a simple "hub" then take the CV flange you want then weld those parts together. That way you don't loose any strength of the original stub.
Jeff

[jimkelly]

Steve,

I had emailed Mike at sharpbuilt before I saw your post of $85 for the box. He emailed me about the same quote. The question is to we need any templtes from Mike to help us put the cuts exactly right on the oil pan or the sump tube?

If you are willing to do the cutting and welding I could send you a check or paypal you for this work and for the cost of the box and for the cost of return shipping.

Looking forward to your engine/radiator.tranny mount design. Maybe you can make for the group or - make the pre cust pieces available to the grou or the drawings so we can have fabricated locally.

I was thining tonyakavw's engine bar would be fine with me but this would leave building tranny mounts which I'd hope would not be too challenging.

I think a seperate engine mount and a seperate tranny mount would ultimately result is less weight - and block less stuff - than a combo mount??

I am sure the cast pan mentioned above will be more $'s. The website does not list a price.

Thanks guys for everything !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim

[jimkelly]

Everyone involved in this thread should read tonyakavw's thread !!

We don't want to reinvent the wheel.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...f=2&t=31579&hl=

Speedo came up - not sure it was resolved?

Faking sensor signals to ecu will also be a challenge and require someone with knowledge in this area.

I guess a local exhaust shop can fab and exhaust but havign the sub exhasut manifolds would probably help.

Jim

[TonyAKAVW]

For the speedometer I will probably be using the stock speedometer to start with, but what I really want to do is make a motor drive for the stock ECU that is driven by the vehicle speed sensor on the Subaru engine. One advantage is that you could tweak it for whatever size tires you have and not worry about the ratio being off. Another advantage is no big cable to melt on the exhaust, or get in the way during an engine drop, etc.

-Tony

[jimkelly]

Hey guys - reminder - Tony is using 914 tranny thus he can use 914 speedo initialy but - nice comment about using sub speed sensor : )

Jim

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 24 2006, 05:19 AM)

Steve, I had emailed Mike at sharpbuilt before I saw your post of $85 for the box. He emailed me about the same quote.  The question is to we need any templtes from Mike to help us put the cuts exactly right on the oil pan or the sump tube? If you are willing to do the cutting and welding I could send you a check or paypal you for this work and for the cost of the box and for the cost of return shipping. Looking forward to your engine/radiator.tranny mount design.  Maybe you can make for the group or - make the pre cust pieces available to the grou or the drawings so we can have fabricated locally. I was thining tonyakavw's engine bar would be fine with me but this would leave building tranny mounts which I'd hope would not be too challenging. I think a seperate engine mount and a seperate tranny mount would ultimately result is less weight - and block less stuff - than a combo mount?? I am sure the cast pan mentioned above will be more $'s.  The website does not list a price. Thanks guys for everything !!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim

This is from a previous post not much has changed -
I plan on making a Suby kit. I am fairly serious about this - so far I have about $10K in tools and shop stuff to do work like this. I am picking up my engine, transmission and a CNC mill on Friday.

What I plan on making is "minimum parts" type of kit to mount a Suby engine AND transmission along with the mid mounted radiator that Scott T pioneered (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) (if I make any money at this some of it will be shared with Scott.) The main design goal is to minimize any cutting (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sawzall-smiley.gif) or drilling on the car. I hope to be able to supply the mounts, the transmission AWD to FWD parts and the shift linkage along with part numbers for hoses, belts, radiator etc and instructions on how to do the swap.

Unfortunatly for the project (not for me) I have a new baby (our first) on the way, I hope I can get started this winter but I won't be suprised if being a new dad slows me down - alot. The good thing is my day job is really slow so I can dedicate more time to important things like engine swaps and kids.

The price will be very reasonable as I won't be reselling anything that I don't make or have made specifically for this project. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap56.gif)

You might notice no mention of wiring. I am using an SDS system so adapting the stock Suby system is not going to come from me. If someone else wants to do this and offer it to members please do so.
Steve

[jimkelly]

wow

I think we can sit back a drink a few beers (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

eat a little popcorn (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/popcorn[1].gif)

smoke a few cigarettes (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smoke.gif)

drink a few more beers (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

and sit tight while Steve

does some cutting (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sawzall-smiley.gif) and welding (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif) and pounding (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

I think our task is simple (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rocking nana.gif)

Jim

[Twystd1]

OK,
So I went to John Edwards machine shop today and found out he sells the cast pan also.. In fact he designed it.

Well: There is NO internal baffling in the bottom. The reason was typically the engine builder welds in his own design to suit the use of the pan.

I saw two designs for baffling at his shop that would suit road racing / A/X..

The price is down to about 310 - 320 bucks for the pan.

Hell, i could weld in an appropriate baffle in twenty minutes... No Problem..

Obviously cutting a stock pan is a bunch cheaper.. period...

Yet I if had the extra bucks... HHHmmmmmm

He also has a setup that places a dry sump pump IN THE PAN and is driven off the front pulley. This is only a prototype as nobody has asked for it yet..

The guy has some crazy kewl stuff going on in his shop.

John also has a cast finned bottom if ya need one.. for extra bucks.

If I can help anyone here on this stuff.. PM me or mail me... I wil see what i can do.....

Twystd1

[TonyAKAVW]

Something to consider about increasing the size of the oil pan is that if you flatten it out and go out to the sides, you are moving part of the oil pan closer to the exhaust ports. I don't know really how much of an effect it has but it seems to me that you could end up with some heat from the exhaust tubes warming up the oil. The oil pan modification I'm doing (hopefully done this weekend) will have extensions to the front and back only.

-Tony

[jimkelly]

Thanks for sharing that Tony - excellent point!

Look forward to some pics : )

Jim

[mightyohm]

Tony, that sounds like a great way to get the oil heated up to operating temperature on a cold day! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (GS Guy @ Jan 24 2006, 04:28 AM)

On the axles - I know Todd @ Precision custom manufactures chromoly flanges to accept T2 and 930 sized CV joints, and sure he could weld a set of these to a pair of Subaru output stubs.  Not sure how that would affect the strength though.  Probably better to utilize the inner portion of the original Suby CV/splined section, machine it down to a simple "hub" then take the CV flange you want then weld those parts together.  That way you don't loose any strength of the original stub. Jeff

Like this maybe. Machine off the grey area and weld on the flange. Notice mine is all one piece the stub is not separate on a 2005 RS transaxle. Did I mention the guy that removed these and the previous set is a careless dolt?

[Porcharu]

bump! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif)

[biggy72]

Just my opinion but wouldn't welding cause the flange to warp some if good penetration is achieved (needed for this type of part)?

I'm the drive train team leader on a formula sae team and we just trashed a set of bearings because on the outboard side of the axle we had a flange adapter that went to the spindle that was welded together. The weld was very even and looked ok, but once taken off and put on a lathe they're far enough off to cause quite a few problems. Since machining a whole flange is out of the question we're going to cut the splined part out, weld a new flange on that is oversized, and then make it true and round on the lathe before drilling out the wholes. Haven't done it yet, but I'm going to start on it tomorrow. I think it will work, but I just thought I should throw in my 2 cents.

Derek Vetter
WSU Formula SAE
http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~sae/

[racerx7]

Drool.

That is my 2nd favorite engine.

Looks very nice.