Subaru transmission installation, Now it's a reality!!! Options

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 8 2006, 10:24 AM)

QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:15 AM) Before I would make any decisions regarding the suby trans, I would go to www.i-club.com talk with these guys and see what thier opinion of the suby trans.  I have a 2.0 WRX engine in my teener... after chatting with the guys on i-club I learned that the suby trans is kinda  :stromberg:  as well.  I just had Brad at 914 limited build me a custom 901, cost me around $2,700. Keith and most of those that thrash a suby transmission are also trying to dump 300+ hp thru 4 wheels and are most likely very hard on the transmission while shifting......the 914 has less weight and only 2 tires to spin when abused...

Most of the "broken transmissions"what I have seen on the Suby sites where like Mike said - lots of power combined with abusive driver or more often some fool that power shifts the car all the time and breaks or bends the shift forks.
Most people here don't beat the hell out cars like 18 year old Suby street racers.
The gears on these tranmissions are bigger than a T-5 and those tranmissions hold up pretty well in 5.0 mustangs (at least until you overpower or abuse them).

[acy76]

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Keep up the good work - I plan on tackling a similar project sometime soon and am following the thread with interest.

[bondo]

This is interesting stuff. Has anyone checked into changing the gearing? I know subie transmissions come geared terribly for V8 use, which pretty much rules them out. But if they were afforably re-gearable..

[jimkelly]

The ONLY reason subaru trannys are being looked at is because they mate to subaru motors without the need for any adapting parts that would typically be need to mate a subaru motor to a 901 tranny.

As far as using a sub tranny on an engine other than a subaru engine - is not what this thread is about although some tid bits of good info may be extrapolated here for THAT purpose : )

Jim

[bondo]

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 8 2006, 01:06 PM)

The ONLY reason subaru trannys are being looked at is because they mate to subaru motors without the need for any adapting parts that would typically be need to mate a subaru motor to a 901 tranny.

I distinctly remember metions of other advantages in this thread.. Stronger.. better shifting.. parts availability.. etc.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I just figure my 901 won't last behind my V8 and I'm trying to keep my finger on the pulse of innovation. I intend to cableshift my 901 for the sole purpose of making the transition to something else when it breaks that much easier.

[jimkelly]

Bondo - you are correct - there are other reasons - I mis-spoke.

I guess for me the most important factor that drives me to the sub tranny and sub engine combo is the total cost and one important factor in total cost is whether or not the combo needs a bunch of KEP parts or not.

On the other hand - a sub tranny will require a axle/cv solution$350?, some aussy parts $250?, maybe a fwd rear housing $100? - items that will all cost money and maybe offset the savings of not needing $1000 in KEP parts??

Jim

[Mueller]

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 8 2006, 01:22 PM)

Bondo - you are correct - there are other reasons - I mis-spoke. I guess for me the most important factor that drives me to the sub tranny and sub engine combo is the total cost and one important factor in total cost is whether or not the combo needs a bunch of KEP parts or not. On the other hand - a sub tranny will require a axle/cv solution$350?, some aussy parts $250?, maybe a fwd rear housing $100? - items that will all cost money and maybe offset the savings of not needing $1000 in KEP parts?? Jim

one important item you are missing is that even "if" one has to purchase custom axles and the aussy parts, you are getting a transmission that is only a few years old and not some 30 year old transmission that has led a rough life (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[WRX914]

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 10:46 AM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 8 2006, 10:24 AM) QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:15 AM) Before I would make any decisions regarding the suby trans, I would go to www.i-club.com talk with these guys and see what thier opinion of the suby trans.  I have a 2.0 WRX engine in my teener... after chatting with the guys on i-club I learned that the suby trans is kinda  :stromberg:  as well.  I just had Brad at 914 limited build me a custom 901, cost me around $2,700. Keith and most of those that thrash a suby transmission are also trying to dump 300+ hp thru 4 wheels and are most likely very hard on the transmission while shifting......the 914 has less weight and only 2 tires to spin when abused... Most of the "broken transmissions"what I have seen on the Suby sites where like Mike said - lots of power combined with abusive driver or more often some fool that power shifts the car all the time and breaks or bends the shift forks. Most people here don't beat the hell out cars like 18 year old Suby street racers. The gears on these tranmissions are bigger than a T-5 and those tranmissions hold up pretty well in 5.0 mustangs (at least until you overpower or abuse them).

One thing I have heard is that trying to buy a nice WRX is like trying to buy a rust free 914. Possible, but not probable. Most of the buyers for these cars are young and foolish (prolly why you can buy low mileage engines cheap after they run into a tree) the people who usually buy these cars flog the shit out of them and usually pile them up within a year. Just be aware of what you buy, ask a shitload of questions about the PO and pray to the gods....

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 8 2006, 09:02 AM)

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 08:31 AM) This is what we need.  One of these with the correct splines for the Subaru stubs and drilled for a 944 CV. You are gonna use 944 axles.cvs? How much for a set? ( do you have a part number for them) Is there not enough room for this adaptor when used with 914 axles/cvs? Have you looked at bus axles/cvs?? Your adaptor has a hole in it for the roll pin? You're gonna use stubs from an earlier year tranny? Jim

I think the 944 CV setup that Clay posted awhile ago is the way to go for this swap. Cheap, stronger and you can actually buy new CV's. Look here at andy's thread -
944 axles
Using this combination allows you to go 5 lug if you use the 944 parts on the axle end or leave the axle end alone and just use the 944 inners and the "magic part" that adapts the 944 CV to the Suby trans.

Here is the "magic" part
BTW I just bought a 94 FWD Legacy trans for $200 - it's in Oregon but my parents are driving down to see the baby tomarrow so they are picking it up for me on the way! This is what the stealer wanted for just the rear case and I had to order it from Japan and wait 6 weeks. According to the junkyard search program there are no FWD Legacy transmissions in California, I guess most people that wanted FWD bought autos.

[nsyr]

Here is my rear tranny mount for the fwd version

[nsyr]

i used part of the original tranny mount

[Porcharu]

So - what is the "magic part" - it's a VW bus cv adaptor flange that the off road guys use, just need to have someone make it with the correct Subaru spline and drill a hole for the roll pin and were done.
Of course you can always weld up something like we were discussing before.
welded CV adaptor flange
These are for Z-cars and seem to hold up well to lots of power. I have already emailed them for details.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 05:48 PM)

So - what is the "magic part" - it's a VW bus cv adaptor flange that the off road guys use, just need to have someone make it with the correct Subaru spline and drill a hole for the roll pin and were done. Of course you can always weld up something like we were discussing before. welded CV adaptor flange These are for Z-cars and seem to hold up well to lots of power. I have already emailed them for details.

interesting stuff.....they even have billet front hubs for converting early Z cars to 5 lug ......

[nsyr]

You are definately going to need shorter axles. the 914 axles are just to long to use with a suby transmission. i have a set of early 924 axles that i will be using for the welded flange deal.

[speedster356]

I'll give you an idea of how strong the FWD box is in the next couple of weeks. I'm building an STI 2.5 engine, 2.0ltr heads, TD05 turbo and high flowed 99 STI injectors. The box stood up to the 2.0ltr with no problems, with repeated hillclimbs and drags. I've since installed an aftermarket LSD (plated KAAZ). The new engine combo will be low boost and low stress with about 250-60 HP @ the rears but with quite a bit more torque. Was running 238 with the 20.ltr.
Wish me luck........ (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (nsyr @ Feb 8 2006, 04:45 PM)

i used part of the original tranny mount

That's what I am looking at doing. I want something like that in the rear and also run tubes forward to the engine to form a 4 point cradle that will hold the engine up when the transmission is removed.

We could always go nuts and do something like this (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) Wevo tailhousing

[nsyr]

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 07:55 PM)

We could always go nuts and do something like this (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) Wevo tailhousing

I think a cable setup will be just fine. (and alot cheaper) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (bondo @ Feb 8 2006, 12:00 PM)

This is interesting stuff. Has anyone checked into changing the gearing? I know subie transmissions come geared terribly for V8 use, which pretty much rules them out. But if they were afforably re-gearable..

It depends what "affordable" means. There are many aftermarket gear sets and final drives for these transmissions. This is what makes converting the AWD transmission to the FWD format so appealing (besides getting a nice almost new clean transmission.)
Look here gears

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (nsyr @ Feb 8 2006, 05:00 PM)

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 07:55 PM) We could always go nuts and do something like this  B) Wevo tailhousing I think a cable setup will be just fine. (and alot cheaper) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Just a bit cheaper.(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) What do think it would cost to make 10 castings like that 20-30K? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) Maybe if we doing this swap a few hundred times it would be worth while.

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (nsyr @ Feb 8 2006, 04:55 PM)

You are definately going to need shorter axles. the 914 axles are just to long to use with a suby transmission. i have a set of early 924 axles that i will be using for the welded flange deal.

I'm not really worried about the axle length right now, getting custom length axles is now big deal if the splines are something standard and just the length is changing. I think almost any combination that uses Porsche/VW cv's will be OK, but the more 914 parts we can keep the better/cheaper/easier it gets. I read a 911 axle was an inch shorter than the 914.
I think I need to stare at the bottom of my transmission for a while. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)