Subaru transmission installation, Now it's a reality!!! Options

[JeffBowlsby]

Here is Erics website, with email address and more...

http://www.etischer.com/

[Mueller]

thanks Jeff (missed you at breakfast today...)

I e-mailed Eric at his old school e-mail addy which bounced back...didn't know about this one....

[jsteele22]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 21 2006, 04:25 PM)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif) just got off the phone with a buddy that went for a ride over the weekend in Eric T's Subaru 6 powered 914...he's trying to find Erics contact info so I can invite him over here....I know he was using a 914 transmission but for some reason I thought he was looking into using a Suby tranny as well....

Just to be clear, Eric used the engine from an XT6, a 2.7L flat six. It's from an older generation of cars (1980s, mainly) and has a different shape bellhousing than the newer EJ series, so he'd have to use an older tranny.

I came across that page and got pretty interested, until I found out that the XT6 engine isn't all that powerful; don't recall offhand, but I'm thinking 135 HP. Might as well go with an EJ22. They're getting to be cheap and plentiful.

[Porcharu]

After breakfast at IHOP I messed around a little bit with the car. I pulled the AWD transmission and installed the FWD to see how it fits. The FWD transmission also has the output stubs installed in it.
Here are a few pictures of both transmissions side by side.

[Porcharu]

Another showing the area I ground away for more clearance. I used an aluminum grinding wheel for this - works great and does not plug up.

[Porcharu]

From the other side. Note how much wider the AWD transmission is across the top. I think the AWD transmission with the FWD conversion kit weights about 15-20 pounds more than the FWD.
Also note the short dip stick tube on the AWD transmission - this may come in handy later.

[Porcharu]

View from the front showing the extra bolt holes and the 2 locations for the release arm pivit in the AWD trans.

[Porcharu]

Back on the engine and ready to go in the car.

[Porcharu]

In the car showing the gap between the hybrid bus/914 axle and the output stub - plenty of room for a flange. Good clearence up top.

[Porcharu]

Starter - that solinoid is about 1/4' from the trunk floor. I still haven't found an indexable starter for the Subaru, being able to rotate the starter body will gain some needed room.

[Porcharu]

Last one for now - The other side. The short dipstick from the AWD transmission would be nice here. There is about an inch or so of clearence between the bellhousing and the trunk floor. The engine is sitting at about a 3 degree angle with the front being the high end. I think this angle is more in a Subaru.

[Porcharu]

This is just to clarify some things a bit. Jim sent me an email asking some questions.

Steve,

Have you settled on the fwd tranny being better for the conversion?

The grinding work you did tells me - yes??

Does it give more room for a custom axle flanges than the awd or is the spacing the same.

Glad to see some new pics - wasn't expecting the fwd tranny to be back in the mix : )

We will need a source for them but it should be cheaper overall than getting and awd and the saker parts.

Jim

Hi Jim,
I am using the FWD transmission because it has the output stubs and my AWD does not. The transmission requires disassembly to install or remove the stubs and I'm not in the mood to tear apart 2 transmissions just for the stubs, I am going to check on prices for 2 new stubs.

The grinding was to make more room on top of the bellhousing area - I prefer grinding on the Subaru parts vs. beating on the 914 body.

The spacing is the same for the flanges on both transmissions.

I think the FWD transmission will fit the best because of the shape of the rear case, but both will work fine. I am fairly sure the AWD transmissions are stronger and many of the AWD transmissions will have better (for perfomance) gear ratios and final drives. The FWD transmission is definatly cheaper if you can find one.

I still plan on making mounts for both transmission types - the engine craddle will be the same for both.

[jsteele22]

Great pictures. Looks like there's plenty of room to bang on that starter w/ a BFH. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I've haven't even seen one of these trannys in person, but I think I remember reading that the stub axles just pull out - there's some kind of ring on them that acts like a detent spring.

[speedster356]

In the Subaru trans you need to split the box to remove the diff, the stubs have a circlip on the inside of the spider gears. If you did want to split it, I would fit a LSD at the same time....much needed if the turbo engine is used... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (speedster356 @ Feb 26 2006, 06:30 PM)

In the Subaru trans you need to split the box to remove the diff, the stubs have a circlip on the inside of the spider gears. If you did want to split it, I would fit a LSD at the same time....much needed if the turbo engine is used... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

The stubs are held in with circlips they are not coming out without taking the trans apart.

My thoughts exactly! Searching for a good LSD right now. The new factory torsen style with stub axles is looking good.

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Feb 26 2006, 03:49 PM)

Great pictures. Looks like there's plenty of room to bang on that starter w/ a BFH. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I don't want to bang on my car with a BFH thats the point of this whole swap. It I wanted to alter the car the swap would be done by now.
Does anyone know of an aftermarket starter for a Subaru - I'm getting ready to alter the stock one.

[jsteele22]

Sorry, I meant the starter itself. I've got that no-hot-starts syndrome, and the only fix (short of replacement) is to bang on the starter or push start. One more thing to looking forward to ...

[WRX914]

A little info that I found today...

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0403scc_hybrid/

Picking the transmission
Aside from the gear ratios, we couldn't find any definitive info about differences between the WRX and lesser Subarus. They all look the same, and the iSpeed boys know only that it seems to take about the same amount of time to break a regular Impreza transmission as it does to break a WRX tranny. As with any transmission, durability depends on how you treat it. i-Speed's Adam Levy, whose brain was the source for most of this information, has been running a 2.5 RS transmission behind his 260-whp WRX engine for 30,000 miles without problems. He knows others, however, who with only slightly more power, go through a transmission every other month. Your mileage may vary.

If you can treat the gearbox with respect, you want anything but a WRX transmission. WRX gears are way too tall, and the ratios in the naturally aspirated cars are much shorter. If you do switch to a WRX box, be sure to switch to a WRX differential as well, otherwise the front and rear wheels will go different speeds and you'll break the gearbox before you get out of the driveway.

The other option, of course, is an STi six speed. If you do this, remember that you'll need an STi diff, all four axles, and all four hubs. Everything STi is substantially beefier.

Whichever you choose, be sure to use a clutch designed for your transmission. Naturally aspirated cars use a push-style clutch, while WRXs use a pull-style; the two are not interchangeable. You'll need a stronger aftermarket clutch, of course, if you use the naturally aspirated transmission.

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Feb 27 2006, 08:55 AM)

Sorry, I meant the starter itself. I've got that no-hot-starts syndrome, and the only fix (short of replacement) is to bang on the starter or push start. One more thing to looking forward to ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)
Changing the starter should be a 5 minute job - same with the alternator. I bet the whole engine can come out in less than 30 minutes when I'm done.

[atsealevel914]

QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 27 2006, 11:22 AM)

A little info that I found today... http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0403scc_hybrid/ Picking the transmission Aside from the gear ratios, we couldn't find any definitive info about differences between the WRX and lesser Subarus. They all look the same, and the iSpeed boys know only that it seems to take about the same amount of time to break a regular Impreza transmission as it does to break a WRX tranny. As with any transmission, durability depends on how you treat it. i-Speed's Adam Levy, whose brain was the source for most of this information, has been running a 2.5 RS transmission behind his 260-whp WRX engine for 30,000 miles without problems. He knows others, however, who with only slightly more power, go through a transmission every other month. Your mileage may vary. If you can treat the gearbox with respect, you want anything but a WRX transmission. WRX gears are way too tall, and the ratios in the naturally aspirated cars are much shorter. If you do switch to a WRX box, be sure to switch to a WRX differential as well, otherwise the front and rear wheels will go different speeds and you'll break the gearbox before you get out of the driveway. The other option, of course, is an STi six speed. If you do this, remember that you'll need an STi diff, all four axles, and all four hubs. Everything STi is substantially beefier. Whichever you choose, be sure to use a clutch designed for your transmission. Naturally aspirated cars use a push-style clutch, while WRXs use a pull-style; the two are not interchangeable. You'll need a stronger aftermarket clutch, of course, if you use the naturally aspirated transmission.

Wrx transmissions with way to tall gears on an awd subaru that weighs significantly more than a 914 are vitim to some heavy shock loads that tear them apart. On a 914 you have way less traction and weight thus not capable of exposing the trans to near the same loads that the heavier AWD WRX can. This is good because in a 914 the 5MT is a way happier camper. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) The tall gears are also welcome in a 914 which is so light.
You do not need to worry about matching the rear diff because ahh..914's are 2WD but im sure you know this.
6 speeds are nice but has anyone converted them to fwd to suit a mid engine application? I prefer a five speed, taller gears and less of them are better suited for high torque light weight cars. A perfect example is the marriage made in heaven of the 930 4 speed box with the small block on a 914.

Porsharu, Thanks for all the latest pictures im exited to know that the bus axle and flange is headed the right direction. Im game for a set of flanges and whatever other parts you make that you want to sell that will cut down the r&d on my project.(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)