Subaru transmission installation, Now it's a reality!!! Options

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (srbliss @ Jan 3 2006, 09:51 AM)

QUOTE (slivel @ Jan 3 2006, 09:39 AM) Does anyone know if the output shafts of the Suby trans are in the same vertical and horizontal planes as the Porsche trans?   The outputs are slightly different. I know that the Suby outputs are closer to the bellhousing flange (I think by about 1-1/2") and I "think" they are a little bit higher up on the case. I will try to measure things this evening.

Some measuring with a tape measure (and some help from here) shows that the Subaru trans outputs are 1-1/2" closer to the engine and 7/8" higher on the trans case.
I think the KEP plate is 5/8 or 3/4" thick - if the all Suby combination is mounted so the CV's are in the stock location the engine will end up at least 2" rearward and 7/8" higher (or the car can be 7/8" lower with the same CV angle and less ground clearance.) The Suby AWD trans is 2" longer than a 901 so if it is mounted 1-1/2" forward there will be about the same amount of room behind the trans for a muffler.

[fiid]

Moving the engine forward would be a good thing - it's really two close to the rear of the engine bay bolted to a 901 with the rear pickup points in the stock location.

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (fiid @ Jan 19 2006, 05:47 PM)

Moving the engine forward would be a good thing - it's really two close to the rear of the engine bay bolted to a 901 with the rear pickup points in the stock location.

The engine is going to moved the rear (if it fits - 2.5 NA engine.)

[jimkelly]

srbliss - please take lots of photos and add them to your blog : )

There are many sub engine in 914 threads - of course most have KEP adaptor stuff in them with 901 trannys but there are several versions of engine bars, radiator placement and I am curious to see what you come up with.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...2&t=32995&st=80
(see page 6)

Thanks,

Jim

[jimkelly]

Just got another good tip I just received is is to try http://www.precisionalloy.com/
and ask them if they can make a set of flanges that mate to the sub tranny output stubs to allow the use of the 914 axles/cvs unmodified.

I'll email them.

Jim

[jimkelly]

This is the response I got ... and my reply ...

-----------------------------------------------

I do quite a bit of this type of machining. I usually convert bus or Vanagon
flanges to Porsche 930 and have done 914 to 930 CV's as well. I have never
looked at Subaru. What is the configuration of the Subaru flange. Do they
bolt on,clip on from the inside or clip on like VW? Is the CV diameter about
the same as Vanagon?
Todd Francis, Precision Alloy LTD.
http://www.precisionalloy.com

------------------------------------------------

Todd,

While my daily driver is a 1993 subaru impreza 1.8 auto, and my fun car is a 1972 Porsche 914, I do not yet have my conversion motor and tranny bought yet. I did though just buy a haynes manula for my impreza and the image in there for the stub axle appears to show it as a short splined axle stub that the cv slides onto/over and there is a roll pin that holds it in place. What I do not know yet is if the stock 914 axle/cv is too long to accomodate any custom flange on the tranny side. If it is too long maybe the solution would be to use a vw bus axle/cv combo with custom flanges on both sides. I will put those currently facing these challenges in touch with you so that they can give you better info such as actual dims/etc. Another friend suggested I contact http://www.raxles.com/ - it looks like they make complete custom axles/cv for about $340 but I was hoping to do something less expensive?
Thank you,
Jim

[Mueller]

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 20 2006, 11:22 AM)

- it looks like they make complete custom axles/cv for about $340 but I was hoping to do something less expensive? Thank you, Jim

I'm sorry, but for brand new custom stuff, you are going to have to pay....that is an excellent price and I doubt very much you'll find anything cheaper......


as for the adapters, figure about $30 to $50 each (min. and depends on quantity).......Steve should be able to make his own now that he has the Bridgeport and he is free to come up to my house and use my lathe if he needs to.

[MartyYeoman]

Steve,
Have uou thought about adding a manual Wildwood parking brake while you're at it.
Having a parking brake at the transmission flange can free up a lot of posibilities out at the wheel.
Marty

[jimkelly]

raxles has not replied to my email yet but they have a list of civic customs axles/cvx for $340 a pair. If they would do a custom axle/cv for 914/sub engine/tranny conversions - I suppose this would be about the same total price as buying bus axles/cvx and having custom adaptors made? Jim

[jimkelly]

I just got off the phone with Marty at raxles.com. He is confident they could make what we need are far as complete axle/cv assys. he mentioned that price would improve as more people are lined up to buy.

The key to this would be a motor and tranny mount that we could all use - one that can be replicated preferrably by the same person at a reasonable cost.

Anyway - I have high jacked this thread enough.

I'll back off for a while as I must be annoying more than a few : )

Have a great weekend,

Jim

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (Marty Yeoman @ Jan 20 2006, 10:55 AM)

Steve, Have uou thought about adding a manual Wildwood parking brake while you're at it. Having a parking brake at the transmission flange can free up a lot of posibilities out at the wheel. Marty

Now that's interesting. I just looked at my transmission and there is a nice stout mounting boss in about the right place for a caliper bracket on the right side of the trans. Add an aluminum rotor to the backside of the CV flange and you would have a nice light parking brake.

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 20 2006, 10:31 AM)

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 20 2006, 11:22 AM) - it looks like they make complete custom axles/cv for about $340 but I was hoping to do something less expensive? Thank you, Jim I'm sorry, but for brand new custom stuff, you are going to have to pay....that is an excellent price and I doubt very much you'll find anything cheaper...... as for the adapters, figure about $30 to $50 each (min. and depends on quantity).......Steve should be able to make his own now that he has the Bridgeport and he is free to come up to my house and use my lathe if he needs to.

True $340 would be a bargain for a set of strong custom axles. I am still hoping that what I read was true - Suby and vw use the same splines.
The mill is not ready to make chips yet. I am still waiting on pricing for the servo drives. Would machining with my infant son in one of those baby bjorn things make me a bad parent? I know that welding would not be to good. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)

[jimkelly]

Steve,

I am not sure - but I guess it could possible be a bad idea to bring an infant into an area with sharp tools that spin at high speeds and toss out fragments of sharp bits of steel. Maybe we need to consult a MOM : )

When will you confirm or disprove that vw splines are the same a subaru splines?

Jim

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 21 2006, 11:45 AM)

Steve, I am not sure - but I guess it could possible be a bad idea to bring an infant into an area with sharp tools that spin at high speeds and toss out fragments of sharp bits of steel.  Maybe we need to consult a MOM : ) When will you confirm or disprove that vw splines are the same a subaru splines? Jim

The little guy will have a face shield - safety 1st you know. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

I hope to know about the flanges next week when I get my good axles, I have a VW bus axle to compare to.

I was able to measure the "width" of the CV outputs today. The Suby is 8-1/4" CV output to output (flanges are not in the transmission) the 901 is about 7-1/2" measured the same way. I still think the stock 914 axle can be used because the Suby looks like it mounts the CV closer to the trans than the 901 does.

[nsyr]

I've been doing a test fit of suby engine and tranny in the teener today and it seems the 914 axles are to long. The axles hit the output shaft of the tranny. Now I need to know if the suby shafts are shorter but I don't have any. Any thoughts?

[jimkelly]

Steve and Andrew,

This thread rocks!

While I would like to save the cost of replacement axles/cvs it seems to me like this is one of the biggest challenges. raxles.com said that a promise to buy 10 pairs of custom axles/cvs would be enough to get the price reasonable. While Marty did not put an exact figure on "reasonable" I take it to be about what they sell honda versions for $340 or so.

To me the most important issue is having a standard design that can be replicated preferrably by the same person for the engine and tranny mount so that the custom axles/cvs - if we need raxles.com to make them - could be the same used by other 914club members provided they use the above mentioned engine/tranny mount.

I hope the engine/tranny mount could be the same for all subaru engines, turbo and non turbo and I also assume that most of us would be using the same 5spd awd tranny?

I am planning on a naturally aspired EJ22 mated to a 5spd awd tranny for mine.

60% more power than a stock 2.0L is enough for me.

Jim

[nsyr]

Hey Pete, any info on the axles you are using?

[Porcharu]

I got the instructions for the AWD->FWD conversion today. Simple, simple.

[jimkelly]

Do you have a definition of "late model" .

Some have written that the very latest models trannies have more bolts to mate the subaru motor than slightly older ones do and maybe tall the 6spd have hydraulic clutches.

Any clarification would be welcome.

Thanks,

Jim

[fiid]

I'm just guessing here - but I think they probably mean anything after like 93-94 when the imprezza was introduced and the legacy lost it's boxy 80's look.

repeat: wild ass guess - don't know for certain.

They did say explicitly IIRC that the 6 speed trannys are different.

This is super cool - I'll be going this way when my 901 breaks....