Need Help On Valuation, Excellence magazine market report Options

[seanery]

Does anyone know what the most recent "Excellence Magazine" with with 924/944/968.

The most current one I can find in my stash is April 2002. I know there has to be a newer one, but I don't have it.
If you have it can you scan the turbo's info and post it here?

Thanks in Advance.

[nomore4]

April 2003 #118.

[seanery]

Danke!

The prices have gone up!!!

[fronkensteen1999]

And the 914 prices?

F

[nomore4]

The latest 914 update I found from nov. 2002.

[nomore4]

more

[fronkensteen1999]

Thanks.

[EdwardBlume]

Seanery.

Is the 951 toasted or is it mainly the motor???

[anthony]

I never understood the Bruce Anderson ratings. What I would call a "poor" condition 914 wouldn't sell for anywhere near what he lists.

[kdfoust]

I never understood the Bruce Anderson ratings. What I would call a "poor" condition 914 wouldn't sell for anywhere near what he lists.

I felt the same way so I asked Bruce Anderson what his ratings mean. Here was his response:


I am sure that there are cars that are worth more than my Excellent market
values and less than my poor market values and even though we only print the
Excellent, Good and Poor Categories and in the case of the late model cars
only the Excellent and Good (which we call Low) categories of cars in
Excellence magazine, I actually break the cars down into five categories,
with one above and one below what we normally print in the magazine:

For my appraisals I use a rating scale of 1 to 5 with 5 being the best, what
I call Beyond Excellent, 4 being Excellent, 3 being Good, 2 being fair and 1
being poor. The following is how these categories break down.

BEYOND EXCELLENT: There are a lot of special Porsches that are worth more
than the excellent category, usually because of their original condition, but
there are other reasons as well. Porches that are still as the factory
delivered them with all (or mostly all) original paint and interior. Cars
with no mileage, or very low mileage, no wear and everything works perfectly.
Possibly a collector car or a show car. These cars are the cars that will
pull the premium prices - more than market value. An example of a car that
might fit into this category would be a very nice slant nose Cabriolet Turbo.
This would be because of a combination of the desirability of these cars and
the fact that so few were built. It is also possible that some famous person
owning various cars could make them more valuable. For instance various
Porsches that have belonged to Ferry Porsche or other members of the Porsche
family will generally pull premium prices. With these cars the prices are
adult decisions. Sometimes these are the cars whose values are determined by
consenting adults behind closed doors often we never know what has happened
or what those values are. Often these cars are part of a trade deal which
even further confuses the issue.

EXCELLENT: These cars must be at least 90% perfect in every detail, either
original or restored to like new condition. Less than ten percent of the cars
would fall into this category. Remember to keep an eye out for collision
damage on these cars - these are the cars that will probably be most effected
by diminution of value - they are not "excellent" if you can tell that they
have been damaged or restored. The amount that the value is diminished will
depend on the age of the car. For instance the value of a relatively new car
might be only reduced by 10%. Whereas it is possible that the value of a 1973
911S that has been repainted might be reduced by as much as 100%. The way
that this would work would be that an Excellent1973 911S might be worth about
$15,000, but an all original 911S of the same vintage that was in Beyond
Excellent condition largely because of its originality might sell for as much
as twice the value of the non original or restored car. So if you were forced
to repaint the original example it could drastically reduce the car’s value.
A car with original paint is always going to be worth more than a car that
has been repainted, but sometimes things happen and the car has to be
repainted. An example of this would be early metallic cars, the metallic
paints almost always failed unless the cars were always stored indoors and or
covered.

GOOD: These cars should require little or no repair - mid value ready to
drive… average value for resale. May show some wear associated with normal
use. This is what would be considered a "clean" car or a "driver".

FAIR: These cars may require paint, Upholstery or minor repairs, but must be
basically sound and complete examples. Estimated restoration cost plus the
purchase price should not exceed Excellent condition value, this is of course
true in any of these categories.

POOR: A parts car or salvageable project car. Rough or rusted cars. The
estimated repair or restoration costs at today's prices for these cars will
probably exceed the "Excellent" value so these cars are probably not worth
owning or the cost of purchase - be careful. You should probably only buy one
of these cars if you have a purpose for them as they cannot be considered an
investment by any stretch of the imagination. Rough or rusted cars. Estimated
repair or restoration costs at today’s prices will probably exceed the
Excellent value so these cars may not be worth owning or the cost of purchase
- be careful

To evaluate the car you are looking at all areas of the car must be
considered for these overall rankings and rated 1 though 5 with 1 for poor, 2
for fair, 3 for good, 4 for very good and 5 for excellent.

Check the exterior for signs of accident damage, check the body metal
condition and panel fit. Body metal and panel fit can be indicators of
accident damage or rust. Either and accident or rust will devalue the car.
What you look for and what you expect will depend on the type of car you are
looking at. If, for instance, the car is an early car of historical interest
originality is important. It should either be original or restored to
original condition. If the car has been restored be sure that the quality of
the restoration is good and that original parts and components have been
used. An all original car will be more valuable than one that has been
restored, but next in value will be a really well restored car using all
original materials.

The exterior is also checked for paint condition, trim and window gaskets and
seals. If the car has been repainted, quality of the repaint, all body trim
items and windows must be removed to properly repaint the car. Bumpers are
checked for fit and condition and the glass is checked for originality and
condition. The wheels and tires are checked for condition and originality. On
most cars the original wheels will add more to the value than aftermarket
wheels. If a cars does have aftermarket wheels ask the seller if they still
have the original wheels. Now if these cars still have the original wheels as
well then they would retain their original value plus whatever the
aftermarket wheels might be worth. Check the spare wheel and tire, older cars
had a full size spare while the newer cars have various types of space saver
spares. The car should have the type of spare that was originally supplied.

Modifications should be noted as you evaluate the exterior. In most cases
modifications will reduce the value of Porsches, but of course there are
exceptions. For instance a conversion done by Alois Ruf will usually enhance
the value of 911s. Some of the modifications to early 911s done by the
members of Cris Huergas‘ R Gruppe will make the cars more desirable and worth
more than stock when done tastefully. Also some of the 356 Outlaws such at
those done by Gary Emory will be more valuable than the stock version of the
car would be. Remember these are exceptions and most modifications will
reduced the value of a car. Ten years ago or so it was very popular to modify
car to make Turbo Look cars, and Slant Nose cars from standard cars. At the
time this may have increased the value a little, but that is no longer true.

You also have to evaluate the interior of the prospective purchase. The
interior should be all original or restored to original using original
materials, again with a preference on all original condition. Check the seat
condition, both front and rear in cars that have rears seats. Check to see
that the seats operate properly and that they are in good condition and not
broken down or severely worn. If the seats are leather check to see if they
have been let dry out. Check the door panels, instrument panel including the
dashboard top. Check the headliner condition tears and staining. All of the
materials used in the interior should be original. While you are checking out
the interior you should check all of the extra features that modern cars have
to make sure that they work. If the car has power antenna be sure that it
works. Check the radio stereo operation. If the car has power seats make sure
that they make all of the moves that hey are supposed to make. If the Porsche
has a remote mirrors be sure to test their operation as well. All of these
modern car features are wonderful when they work but expensive to fix when
they don’t.


Engine and Engine compartment. All of the right "O" rings, seals and bellows
should be in good condition and in place in the engine compartment. Try to
make sure that all of the numbers match, the chassis, engine and
transmission. This may be hard to do unless the seller has a Certificate of
authenticity from Porsche Cars North America, Inc. with all of the factory
Kardex information. The engine and transmission should be clean and dry and
have an original appearance. The engine should start quickly and run smoothly
after a short warm-up period. Test drive the Porsche it should run well,
shift well and everything should work properly. The car should be able to
pass a rigid prepurchase inspection.

Mechanicals and Undercarriage, the undercharge should be clean and straight.
The cars undercoating should be in tact and in good condition. Again the car
should be able to pass a prepurchase inspection. The car should have all of
the correct suspension bits and they should all be on good condition.

Trunk compartment, the turn should be clean and neat. A lot of Porsches have
their battery in the trunk, make sure that the battery has not boiled over
and damaged the trunk area or the trunk carpeting in models where the trunk
is carpeted.

History, if the car you are looking at h as a special history it may make the
car more valuable. The value of race cars in particular is effected by the c
ar’s history. Race cars that have raced at special places like Le Mans and
other famous tracks will be more valuable than cars that have no racing
history or at least no significant racing history. For instance a car that
had raced at significant tracks and done well and maybe won a championship
would very clearly be worth more than a similar car with no history at all.

[anthony]

Thanks for posting that. You you've confirmed that Bruce lives in a 914 parallel universe that none of us inhabit. I doubt we will ever see a "poor" condition '74 2L sell for $4730. Anyone want to give me $7200 for my 90%, excellent 914?

[Brad Roberts]

Anthony... I see NO reason why your couldnt get 7k for your car.

Cut Bruce some slack.. he is the ONLY person out there that backs up our cars and gives them some value. If it wasnt for his "different world" approach to pricing.. we all would be stuck with people thinking our cars are 500$ beaters.


B

[J P Stein]

I agree with Brad....cept about oil coolers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mr. Anderson collects data and publishes it in Excellence. As a reward, a lot of folks (interenet gurus) critize him...not enuff, too much....yada. Where is other data?...not just opinions.

Mr. Anderson is the most helpful guy I've ever come across in the Pcar world. He has always taken time to answer my off-beat questions...and one can take his answers to the bank.

Maybe he should add a catagory to his valuations: Parts Cars, Rust Buckets or Beyond Shitty.

[Mike D.]

Thanks for that responce Brad. I agree.

I recently had a guy come out and look at my '74 2.0 (the car in the avitar) which I'm asking $4500. I told the guy all about the car and what I had done over the years and he says to me "So, you trying to git all your money back or sumthin?"

I said to him "Good Bye" - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif) - dumbass...

-Mike D.

ps. - 3 cars for sale...still...

[Part Pricer]

Mr. Anderson collects data and publishes it in Excellence

I'm sorry, I call "bullshit".

I examined the "data" that was published in Excellence over a period of five years. I didn't just look at 914 values, I looked at the Market Updates for every model. Looking at the changes and trends for each model it became very clear, the values are formulaic at best. Uniform percentage changes across a population do not happen in the real world. That only happens when you are playing with a spreadsheet.

I asked about this phenomenon via both written correspondence and in person. Same response both times, "No comment".

The real world is what people are willing to pay. There are very few people paying those prices.

[Andyrew]

Hey atleast it gives us something to go by.. I think you should give bruce some slack. I read the market updates because I always get people asking me how much certain cars are worth, and what bruce writes is very helpful and informative.

just me .02

Andrew
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

Ps: Paul have I told you how much I love your atvar! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif)

[anthony]

Cut Bruce some slack.. he is the ONLY person out there that backs up our cars and gives them some value. If it wasnt for his "different world" approach to pricing.. we all would be stuck with people thinking our cars are 500$ beaters.

I don't think I'm buying that hard on Bruce. He is actually close in the Excellent and Good categories if only slightly optimistic but I think his Excellent valuation bleeds into the Beyond Excellent category or may account for the higher prices the cars get on the East Coast. Anyway that is a minor quibble.

But saying that there is only a $650 difference between a Good 914 and Poor 914 just seems unrealistic. We all know that this is just very far from reality and I'm not sure that I see the point in publishing it. Does over appraising beater cars make people feel good?

GOOD: These cars should require little or no repair - mid value ready to
drive - average value for resale. May show some wear associated with normal
use. This is what would be considered a "clean" car or a "driver".

POOR: A parts car or salvageable project car. Rough or rusted cars.

[Mike D.]

Maybe he writes the values for our insurance companies. We all know you can get a great teener 4-6k, but could you fix a great teener that had been hit by a Ford Explorer for 4-6k? I don't think so...

$.02
-Mike D.