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> Replacing oil seals w/engine in car...possible?
Air_Cooled_Nut
post Sep 2 2003, 07:24 PM
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PO says the oil leak is due to the oil cooler seals and that they need replacing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Maybe the nuts just need to be snugged down a tad more, I dunno. Anyway, can I easily get to the oil cooler with the engine in the car? Looks like some engine tin needs to be removed but... Suggestions or previous experience out there? I'm really not in the mood to drop the engine and tranny (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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Bleyseng
post Sep 2 2003, 07:37 PM
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Yes, it can be done but if you have the space drop the motor as its way easier. If not, start tearing it apart and buy a case of brake cleaner to clean the motor.

Geoff
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Demick
post Sep 2 2003, 08:10 PM
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Check the Pelican parts tech articles. I wrote some tips years ago that are posted there.

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Rusty
post Sep 2 2003, 08:40 PM
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Not easy, but very possible with some patience. IIRC, a gob of assembly lube on the seals helped hold them in place while putting the cooler back in place.
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ejm
post Sep 2 2003, 08:45 PM
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I just did cooler seals on my '76 last week. Fairly simple job from below. Spin off the filter, remove the 13mm bolt on the outboard bracket, then the two 10mm cooler nuts you can see. Use a 1/4 ratchet with a deep socket to get the third nut. Slide the cooler away from the block and wait until the oil drains. Blast everthing clean with some brakeclean. I made a tool from a piece of coat hanger to hold the seals, then with a thin screwdriver pressed them into place using a little brown permatex so they stayed. Took about 1 1/2 hours.
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Brad Roberts
post Sep 3 2003, 12:19 AM
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Ed.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) Great description. Here is the area that you will be working in.. minus the cooler...



B
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Air_Cooled_Nut
post Sep 3 2003, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Sep 2 2003, 10:19 PM)
Ed.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)  Great description. Here is the area that you will be working in.. minus the cooler...



B

Brad, thanks for the photograph, that helps me out aLOT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) Except I know my engine won't look as pretty as yours (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Thank goodness I have skinny, long hands that are made for working on German autos.

Now I have a good visualization of what I'll be working around...hmmm, maybe I should drop the engine, remove the stock oil cooler, block off the opening in the tin, bolt on a cooler by-pass adapter, and mount a Mesa oil cooler somewhere else on the body...naw, I'm too broke and got other important things to do to her first (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oh duh!, that's exactly what you did now that I'm really looking at the picture (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

This post has been edited by Air_Cooled_Nut: Sep 3 2003, 11:57 AM
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airsix
post Sep 3 2003, 02:03 PM
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Before you go to the trouble (it is trouble by the way) of replacing the cooler seals with the engine still in the car, check that you don't have a leaking oil pressure sender. When they go they often look fine at idle and only leak (like a sive) while you're driving. The oil runs down and gets blown out the bottom all around the cooler and oil filter making it look like a cooler leak. Same goes for distributor shaft O-ring, but they don't leak much.
-Ben M.
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Curvie Roadlover
post Sep 3 2003, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE(airsix @ Sep 3 2003, 12:03 PM)
Before you go to the trouble (it is trouble by the way) of replacing the cooler seals with the engine still in the car, check that you don't have a leaking oil pressure sender. When they go they often look fine at idle and only leak (like a sive) while you're driving. The oil runs down and gets blown out the bottom all around the cooler and oil filter making it look like a cooler leak. Same goes for distributor shaft O-ring, but they don't leak much.
-Ben M.

Good advice Ben. If that fixes the leak (the oil temp sender) you've saved yourself a real PITA job. If it is the cooler seals, though, I recommend dropping the engine not only to make the replacement of the seals easy, it also offers you the chance to clean the cooler of 30 years of debris, and to do a good visual inspection of the engine from all angles.
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Bleyseng
post Sep 3 2003, 08:23 PM
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Good advice Curvie! Also take off the top tin to clean the oil caked grime off the cylinders and heads. It gets packed in there pretty quickly and prevents the engine from cooling properly.

Geoff
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Curvie Roadlover
post Sep 3 2003, 08:27 PM
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yup
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Air_Cooled_Nut
post Sep 4 2003, 01:42 AM
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QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Sep 3 2003, 06:23 PM)
Good advice Curvie! Also take off the top tin to clean the oil caked grime off the cylinders and heads. It gets packed in there pretty quickly and prevents the engine from cooling properly.

Geoff

Having owned and maintained my Squareback since 1985 I'm pretty aware of air-cooled necessities (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, bought the seals and lifted the car (an adventure in itself). Once finally high enough for me to creep under I removed the right side heater ducts to make room. I put on a three-pronged filter wrench to remove the filter and it turned! It wasn't even on tight!!! So I tightened it properly. Wiped away much of the oil then started the engine. Looking around I saw no other leaks. I reved the engine and held it around 5000rpm for a few seconds to get her pulse racing and get the oil flowing. Still no leaks. Turned the engine off and poked around some more. Oops, some oil is leaking around the cooler mount. And the valve cover gasket. And several pushrod tubes glistening with fresh oil.

Crap.

Oil started dripping from the heat exchangers, cooling tin and filter.

Crap.

We know what this means, right? Yep...gotta drop the engine.

Crap.

So I have new seals but I didn't install them. Looks like I'm gonna have to drop the %!@#$ engine/tranny and make a list of what I need to do to it -- seals, non-leaking fuel lines to the injectors, new vacuum hoses, Compufire points for dizzy, etc...

Crap.

Well, at least I'll be able to get into the engine bay and repair the rusted out body by the battery and weld the rear trunk lid hinge brackets back on, amoungst other things I'm sure I'll find...
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airsix
post Sep 4 2003, 10:33 AM
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QUOTE(Air_Cooled_Nut @ Sep 3 2003, 11:42 PM)
Having owned and maintained my Squareback since 1985 I'm pretty aware of air-cooled necessities (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(snip)
Crap.

Oil started dripping from the heat exchangers, cooling tin and filter.

Crap.

We know what this means, right?  Yep...gotta drop the engine.

Crap.

Are you talking about dropping the engine to do the pushrod tube seals? I have good news for you. TypeIV's don't have sandwiched pushrod tubes like bugs. Just pull the rocker assemblies off and pull the tubes out through the top of the heads with the engine in the car. No need to pull the heads. You can do it in a Saturday morning and be back on the road by noon.

-Ben M.
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Air_Cooled_Nut
post Sep 4 2003, 12:18 PM
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Well, with these oil leaks and associated grime-n-oil buildup it would be easiest for me to drop it. Plus it will give me experience because I've never dropped a 914 engine (my accident doesn't count!). I can do my VW, no problem, but being carbed it has less complications surrounding it and it doesn't require dropping the tranny as well (yeay!).

How can you remove the pushrod tubes unless you remove the head? Pushing the limits of my memory but if I recall my tubes didn't appear to be accordian-style...uhg, I could be wrong...it was pretty dark and messy under there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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Brad Roberts
post Sep 4 2003, 12:33 PM
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Your have to remove the rocker assemblies to pull the push rod tubes out. I grab them with regular pliars (dont crush them) and twist and pull. They will come out.


B
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airsix
post Sep 4 2003, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE(Air_Cooled_Nut @ Sep 4 2003, 10:18 AM)
How can you remove the pushrod tubes unless you remove the head? Pushing the limits of my memory but if I recall my tubes didn't appear to be accordian-style...uhg, I could be wrong...it was pretty dark and messy under there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

TypeIV tubes are not like TypeI tubes. They are not sandwitched betweent the case and the head. They float. They are held in place by a retainer spring under the rockers. If you pull the rockers off you can pull the tubes right out through the hole in the head.
-Ben M.
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Air_Cooled_Nut
post Sep 4 2003, 01:00 PM
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Oh, thanks for explaining that, now I understand. I saw, what I think, are seals around the tube and head. These would need replacing, right?

Before we go any further, I am a BIG proponent of shop manuals. I can't believe the number of people I try to help in the other forums I'm in and they don't have one shop manual -- too expensive, can't find one, I only do custom work, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
Here's the list of T4-specific manuals I have:

-VW/Porsche 914/4 1.7 and 2.0 Litre Repair Guide by Peter R.D. Russek (Glovebox Series)
-914 Tech Tips 700 by George A. Hussey, IV
-Porsche 914 4 cylinder Owners Workshop Manual by Haynes (got one for the 911 as well...one day...)
-Porsche Service Repair Handbook 914 Series 1970-1973 by Clymer Publications
-How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen Air-Cooled Engine by Tom Wilson of HPBooks

Don't have a Bentley, haven't checked if there is one for the 914, but if so then that is THE book I would use if it's like the ones I have for my VWs.

Guess I've got some learnin' to do on this new fangled injun, huh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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Bleyseng
post Sep 4 2003, 05:19 PM
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You can download the shop manual from this site as that is the ONE to use. I just replaced all the seals on my engine to stop oil leaks. Use Brads trick, get a case of Brake Cleaner to clean off all the oil grime off the engine, works great!

Geoff
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Air_Cooled_Nut
post Sep 4 2003, 05:27 PM
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Where the heck is this shop manual?
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Bleyseng
post Sep 4 2003, 05:28 PM
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ah, its a secret!
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