What would you guys do?, Working Professionally On Cars Options

[grantsfo]

Electric cars seem to be finally coming on as a viable means of transport for some. Great opportunity to blend electrical engineering, IT and cars all in one. Developing technologies may allow a few private companies to emerge outside of the big automotive manufacturers as big successes. Specialty Electric cars seem to me to be a possible great business opportunity.

With aging boomer crowd hot rods will also continue to be popular. I spent some time with my dad recently in Grants Pass, OR and I was amazed how many guys in his hot rod club have full out workshops next to their homes. Some of these guys are making great livings doing custom rods. People are throwing around big money on these cars too. I saw a couple $75 K hotrods.

[Dr Evil]

Dude,
Be glad you are in undergrad and thinking this. I am in med school and I can think of is cars, planes, helos, bikes, trucks, etc. Getting a degree usually sucks becasue of the breadth of knowledge you must digest. However, after you are done it is better in that ou can start to hone your own desires to a finish out of what you are given. It is like having a tool box with both SAE and metric tools that you must lug around for a given amount of time until you are allowed to only take what you need (the metric of course). Bust your ass, make some money, find your bliss and experience it.

I plan on maybe doing the doctor thing until it gets old and then settign up a specialty shop for 914 and my other interests. It could work.

[warrenporsche]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) I am a UTI graduate, a factory trained Porsche mechanic, and now work at a VW dealership full time. Let me assure you that it is VERY tough to make a living working on cars. Dealerships make money by keeping thier warrany cost down ( that is where your money usually comes from) and most all mechanics are straight commision. doing work on the side is all you can do to offset the financial beating a dealer mechanic gets.

[jasons]

QUOTE (jhadler @ Mar 29 2006, 01:52 PM)

QUOTE (jasons @ Mar 29 2006, 11:24 AM) For me, there is a difference in working on cars for fun and working on cars for money or because I have to.  I hate working on my daily driver and I hate working on my wifes truck. I can't believe there aren't jobs in TV with so many channels and so many offbeat shows.  How did that guy start the show "PINKS"?  He had an idea, a couple of cameras, found 2 guys willing to bet their cars, now he has a cash cow.  The guy that hosts Overhaulin' whatshisname Chris?  He had to start somewhere.  That show "Build or Bust" on speed, same thing.  There are more shows on TV now about cars than ever before. EDIT: Basically, sometimes (not always) Hobbies are better left as Hobbies. Nah, it wasn't the show. It was the fact he was able to attract SPONSORS. Advertising is the life blodd of a TV show. Why do you think there are countless hours of bass fishing on TV? Sure as hell isn't as exciting as lawnmower racing, but both get lots of hours on TV because they conviced the advertisers that there would be people watching the show.

Thats kind of a chicken/egg debate isn't it?

My point is, I believe there are more journalism opportunities in motorsports than ever before. There's practically a whole channel devoted to NASCAR alone.

[byndbad914]

QUOTE (warrenporsche @ Mar 29 2006, 03:20 PM)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) I am a UTI graduate, a factory trained Porsche mechanic, and now work at a VW dealership full time. Let me assure you that it is VERY tough to  make a living working on cars. Dealerships make money by keeping thier warrany cost down ( that is where your money usually comes from) and most all mechanics are straight commision. doing work on the side is all you can do to offset the financial beating a dealer mechanic gets.

I worked the commission thing like so many others out there. Say it was 60/40 - YOU don't get the 60, the shop does. You get 40%. Oh yeah, and you have to buy all of your own tools with that 40% while you're at it. Then, you get paid by the job, so if you are good and fast like I was, you "bill" 60-80hrs per week but only work 40-50hrs. BUT, there are those days that you get a 1 hr job and a rusted bolt breaks off and you spend 3 hours digging that POS out. I had a 2 hr job one morning turn into a 10 hr day - that one still haunts my dreams to this day (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) I also stayed away from dealerships - some horror stories to follow - but that came with some weeks that I did a lot of standing and didn't bill 40hrs because the work just wasn't there to be done.

I had a car project collecting dust because it was unfeasable to spend the money. Got a BSME, decent job, and finally building my race car.

Warren - I feel for you man! Dealership work is cut-throat, but unfortunately, somewhat stable compared to working for a smaller shop. Had one of these days yet - the transmission guy is dying because he doesn't have any drivetrain work coming in, but you have a good job going and a 2nd one waiting. FINALLY going to have a productive day and then as you finish the job, you realize the trans guy is under your 2nd car because "I gotta family to feed man". THEN, next time a trans oil change comes through he is busy, your slow, so you take the simple oil change and he comes after you with a wrench? Then you get fired for rearranging his dental work - with him still holding the wrench. Gotta friend with that story.

Another incident another friend from school had - he was the "brakes" guy and there was a factory recall on a switch IIRC - took 5-10 minutes to replace, but if you were doing the job for a customer it paid an hour minimum. Well, not for the mfr it doesn't. They literally wanted to pay him a negotiated rate of 10 minutes per and then he had to do all of them that came in. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/bs.gif) So he was losing his ass everytime he did one of those.

[Allan]

I am in a similar but somewhat different position. If all goes as planned, our house will sell in a timely manner and we will be moving to Istanbul within the next 4 or 5 months.

I will be at a crossroad as to what to do next. My options are: 1. Retire, which I know will get veeery boring after awhile. 2. Teach at one of the language institutes which I know will wear on my patience. Or, 3. Open a repair shop with my father in-law who has worked in or owned his own shop for over 50 years.

The delimma is that numbers 1 and 2 cost nothing, but, number 1 offers nothing in return and number 2 only offers a salary in exchange for a service (I am doing that now). Number 3 offers the most rewards because I can do something I like and hopefully offer some monetary return but, also requires the most financial investment.

I have a feeling the next 6 months are gonna be stressful.

The only thing I can offer is to stay in school and finish. You're too far into it to change course at this time and place in your life. It will give you some time to really evaluate your options which, may change in a year or two but you'll still have a solid footing should you need it.

[drive-ability]

I spent 20 years doing tune up and driveability, computer controls and electrical systems. Worked for G.M. dealers. I was always the top guy in the shop. Made between 50 and 80k but the work atmosphere is harsh and unforgiving. Almost all shops are set up to pay you per job (Flag hour) so you better be good or starve. The best thing that happened to me is a blue out my back. I thank God everyday for the fact I don't have to go back to doing that type of work. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/drunk.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)
Don't do it
If you do, one day in the future you will wish you had done something different.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chair.gif)

[byndbad914]

QUOTE (drive-ability @ Mar 29 2006, 04:58 PM)

The best thing that happened to me is a blue out my back. I thank God everyday for the fact I don't have to go back to doing that type of work. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/drunk.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

mix this with the whole IT thing that started this thread...

OFFICE SPACE

Y'all know what I'm talking about right?! The guy who want to kill himself but then backs out of the garage and gets T-boned, laid up in a wheel chair with head gear and saying it's the best thing that could have ever happened to him
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif)

Sorry about your back btw - I have a hard time sitting in one place for very long without having a dull numbness set in. Probably couldn't walk if I had done that work for 20yrs.

[Thorshammer]

Some of my experience is a bit different, but I must echo most of what has been said here.

1. It (restoration) may be very enjoyable now, but when you must do it, and it must be done by Friday, or you won't eat, it changes your perspective.

2. Even if you never use a degree, you must have one. I have been very lucky without one, but also took classes over the past few years to get the info I needed to be successful. Regardless, if you don't have one, many jobs are just not open to you, even if you can do them. Without one, I will be limited as I get older. Just a fact of life.

3. As a mechanic, and I am proud to say, a very good one, I can always get a job, or work. Always, Oil rig, auto dealer, motorcycle, Wal Mart tire Store, I will always work. It may not be glamorous, but if you can fix shit, you will always have someone that needs you.

See if you are following along:

Get a degree, NOW! get it over with. Journalism, fine, just keep your eye on the ring, involvement with motorsports as a journalist would probably be one of the best jobs I can think, next to F1 engineer. And always remember, "the pen IS mightier than the sword" This is more true now with the internet, than any other time.

Lastly, life is long. Ask yourself what will be the deciding factor when you look back at your life when you are 80 years old. Will you really be proud, or merely satisfied. Will you have changed the world or at least guided a small portion of it?

For me, I am afraid of living all these years and when I look back in the future, thinking I haven't accomplished anything, and wasting my life. This is the thought that drives me, sometimes to a fault.

In closing, some interesting 30 year olds I know, don't know what they want to be when they grow up; the most interesting still don't know at 40.

Erik Madsen

Post Script: Get the degree, but keep the fire burning for restoration, it's a nice side job, and an enjoyable one. But keep a log of every job you do, they will end up being so many, you'll lose track. And Good Luck!

[MattR]

Interesting post.

I'm a 3rd year mechanical engineer right now. I've always been frusturated at what they've been teaching me in school. Theres lots of numbers and problem solving that doesnt mean crap in the real world. Every real engineer I talk to in motorsports agrees the 5 years as an undergrad is a huge waste of time. With that said, when I went to apply to Porsche Motorsports on monday, the first two questions they asked me were "are you a student" and "what are you studying?" I'm glad I had the right answer.

No matter the degree, you gotta get one. My boss right now (with the race team) doesnt have a degree, and he's told me what a pain its been to get anywhere in motorsports. Other diciplines may be different, but it seems like a bachelors is pretty necessary to dodge the grunt work. If you want to do grunt work, take a year off school and do only grunt work. Post again in a year and tell us how willing you are to devote many more years to that same thing.

[drive-ability]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif)

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Mar 29 2006, 05:20 PM)

QUOTE (drive-ability @ Mar 29 2006, 04:58 PM) The best thing that happened to me is a blue out my back. I thank God everyday for the fact I don't have to go back to doing that type of work. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif)  :DRUNK:  :mueba: mix this with the whole IT thing that started this thread... OFFICE SPACE Y'all know what I'm talking about right?! The guy who want to kill himself but then backs out of the garage and gets T-boned, laid up in a wheel chair with head gear and saying it's the best thing that could have ever happened to him (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) Sorry about your back btw - I have a hard time sitting in one place for very long without having a dull numbness set in. Probably couldn't walk if I had done that work for 20yrs.

Its true, I have been keeping house for about 6 years and love it. My wife loves it as well! I drive by my old work place just to let my manager know its my 1875th day in a row off. He just hates that. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/poke.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) I never would have built a car working on them every day. That was the last thing I wanted to do when I got home.

[Porcharu]

Yep - get that degree any BS will do. My best friend is the hardest working smartest guy I have ever met, he made a dumb decision to not finish the last year of ME school (Cal Poly SLO) and he just recently gave up ever trying to work for other people. He ran the PHD and Masters ME lab (as the manufacturing engineer) at UC Berkley for one of engineering groups that was doing big time military stuff (DARPA?) and the program ended so he had no job. He kept finding great jobs at places that would not hire him because he had no degree - even with almost 10 years experience and a reference list a mile long. He gave up and now he runs a gas station.

I got my worthless degree (to me it was waste - seems real important to others) and I'm glad I did. I changed majors twice because I hated (ME then computer engineering ) what I was studying.
I think the main thing a degree shows is that you can start and finish something on a large scale.

[lapuwali]

I have to say, this is getting a bit too much. I agree that finishing that degree is a good idea, but not having one is not the end of the world, and certainly not one that will force you into "B" level jobs or worse. Places that insist on a degree, even a degree that isn't in any way related to what you'll do, are generally not great places to work. They're run by short-sighted narrow-minded people who can't see the forest for the trees.

Having the sheepskin makes getting a bad job a lot easier, but it doesn't help much in getting a good job unless you have other qualities to back it up. My definition of "good" has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with how much you enjoy doing it, and the sort of people you have working around you.

Most of the real idiots I've met in my line of work have Ph.D after their names. Many of the more brilliant people have no degree at all...

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Mar 29 2006, 10:09 PM)

Places that insist on a degree, even a degree that isn't in any way related to what you'll do, are generally not great places to work. They're run by short-sighted narrow-minded people who can't see the forest for the trees.

Unfortunatly that would be most of corporate America today.
I didn't used to "get" Dilbert. Now that we have been assimalated by a HUGE corp. I get it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[Brando]

Hmm...

You'll never live a lavish lifestyle as a "mechanic". You'll just make a decent living. Hell, why do you think I took the newspaper job over the mechanic job?

Consider another career field unless you want to become a technician, or work for a major manufacturer. Or get lucky and hook up with a racing division.

Only "specialists" make a damn good living, and the way it goes... you need at least 15-20 years of experience and certifications, special training (factory) and tons of time with the cars to get to that point.

[alpha434]

I agree with MattR and Bondo.

I was in the same position when I was 15 and wanted to play. Al Lager was *only* interested in me because I was studying to be a machinist and intended to follow up with an engineering degree. And even now, after I've been tested tried and true, I think he would still consider dropping me if I were to deviate from my planned course and so I'm in junior college now trying to knock out all my core classes.

I'll be sticking around until I've got my bachelors and I spend all my free time picking up extra certs to make me more valuable. I just completed a suspension dynamics course and got certed in Penske-style shocks, the Rhoehrig dynamometer, and Suspension Analyzer V1.1. This to add to a butt-load of other certs that I've obtained just on the off chance that they look good to someone. (I've never not been hired on the spot for a machining position.)

It's a ton of hard work. And I, like many here, have dedicated endless hours to it. And I still may never get past the local levels of racing, as sad as that may be. Oppurtunities don't always spring up at you. You have to make them for yourself. And that takes more time and effort than you could imagine.

And on the same note, nobody should be allowed to bitch from now on when I get free or reduced-price used parts. I bust my ass for 'em. But that's OT.

Good luck, man. I'd defiantely help you if I could. Us young guns have got to stick together.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)

[John Kelly]

I dropped out of school in the 8th grade and never looked back...not for everybody, but it worked for me. Now I teach.... oh the irony.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

[drewvw]

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Mar 29 2006, 05:20 PM)

QUOTE (drive-ability @ Mar 29 2006, 04:58 PM) The best thing that happened to me is a blue out my back. I thank God everyday for the fact I don't have to go back to doing that type of work. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif)  :DRUNK:  :mueba: mix this with the whole IT thing that started this thread... OFFICE SPACE Y'all know what I'm talking about right?! The guy who want to kill himself but then backs out of the garage and gets T-boned, laid up in a wheel chair with head gear and saying it's the best thing that could have ever happened to him (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) Sorry about your back btw - I have a hard time sitting in one place for very long without having a dull numbness set in. Probably couldn't walk if I had done that work for 20yrs.

don't be afraid to follow your dreams and design a "jump to conclusions" mat. It could be the next pet rock! (more office space)


That movie was a godsend.....

[J P Stein]

I've been building "stuff" for 40+ years. I'd fall into the "satisfied" catagory. Building stuff satisfies some inner need ....it must be genes or sumthin'. I tried office work and about went nuts. So I build stuff at work as part of a team & at home by myself. I tried wrenchin' on cars......as hobby as work can take the joy out of it........same with wood working.

Could I have done "better" with a degree? sure. I started in the 60s, but now days, the outfit I work for won't even consider a newbie coming in without at least an associates degree for a machinist position. Back in the 60s, all you needed was a heartbeat & a willingness to work your ass off.

Get the sheepskin. .......and never trust anyone under 40 when seeking advice (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Jake Raby]

QUOTE

.......and never trust anyone under 40 when seeking advice

Hell, looks like I have 10 more fucking years before you guys should listen to me!

Looks like a good excuse not to give any more advice till I'm qualified.

See ya.