 Corner Balancing a Twisted Tub ..., Adventures in Weight-Distribution Land ... |
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| sean_v8_914 |
 Apr 23 2006, 11:55 PM
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#41
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Chingon 601  Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541  |
Good persistent german, good job. I think you need adjustable drop links...or srtaighten your tub (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) did you read john Roger's psot about his corner balancing results?
did you shave off any time? |
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| SirAndy |
Apr 25 2006, 02:02 PM
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#42
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,891 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(sean_v8_914 @ Apr 23 2006, 10:55 PM)  did you shave off any time? can't tell. this was my first AX after i "downgraded" to a 1.7L ... felt good. got within 3 secs of trekkor. biggest problem i had was that *tiny* gate right after the long right-hand sweeper. my car is 10"+ wider than treks or nathans car and that gate only left me with 1" on each side and i was in 3rd at that point ... 3 out of 7 were clean, the other 4 times, i sent the cones flying ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy |
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| Brett W |
Apr 25 2006, 04:06 PM
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#43
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,858 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None 
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What are your cross weight percentages? That is what really matters. Pulling your tub back into shape should not be that expensive. I had a chassis done for less than 400$ and another car done for $300.
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| byndbad914 |
Apr 26 2006, 06:04 PM
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#44
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Brett W @ Apr 25 2006, 03:06 PM) What are your cross weight percentages? That is what really matters. Pulling your tub back into shape should not be that expensive. I had a chassis done for less than 400$ and another car done for $300. I totally agree - $2K for a straightening!? That seems way outta whack, though I have never had a "tub" car straightened, I had a friend's subframe car tweaked back after I put a monster 383 in it and he bent the car first day out with it. I think it was $500 including welding in subframe connectors. That is a few years ago, so maybe $700 now with some inflation, but not $2K. Seems like Pcar guys get screwed left and right. Just like when I was quoting out my tube chassis build for my 914 - everyone in the "Porsche" world was quoting $15K plus with no custom suspension and I am having a baja shop do the work with custom suspension stuff for MUCH less. No custom suspension quote was less than half the $15K!!! And frankly, tubes is tubes - and AJs welding is hands-down some of the best I have seen and witnessed first hand. Apparently a little (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) makes for some steady welds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Apr 26 2006, 06:22 PM
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#45
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,891 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
putting a car on a celette bench is not your normal body shop "pulling" ...
figure 8-10 hours times two worker-bees working the bench, normal shop-rate. that is, if everything goes smooth. if not, more ... plus renting the fixtures. fixtures for the celette are about ~100 day. that does NOT include stripping the tub ... you do the math ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy PS: as i said, that would be your normal shop rate during normal biz-hours. |
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| r_towle |
Apr 13 2007, 11:58 AM
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#46
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,645 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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QUOTE(McMark @ Apr 22 2006, 01:38 PM) <!-- quoteo(post=664983:date=Apr 22 2006, 08:01 AM:name=r_towle) --><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(r_towle @ Apr 22 2006, 08:01 AM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!-- quotec -->Would you mind showing us how you used scales...without the special racing scales....<!-- QuoteEnd --></div><!-- QuoteEEnd --> Ghetto corner balance. It actually worked pretty well. Scales went up to 360+ lbs even though they were only rated for 300 lbs. $6 per scale on sale. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) <!-- quoteo(post=664996:date=Apr 22 2006, 08:31 AM:name=rhodyguy) --><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Apr 22 2006, 08:31 AM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!-- quotec -->did you alter the corner balancing after the alignment? where did you make the biggest move? the adj perches, up front, or a combo? <!-- QuoteEnd --></div><!-- QuoteEEnd --> The car was aligned when we started, now it's a little out of alignment. That the price you pay for night-before adjustments. The image Andy posted shows how obviously tweaked the chassis was. The left rear was above 600 lbs constantly, the front right was below 500 lbs most of the time and the front left/right rear were pretty stable and balanced at around 550 lbs. The left rear suspension pickup is probably tweaked downwards and the front right suspension is visibly tweaked upwards. So we made a lot of progress, considering the chassis. Next step for Andy's car is the Celette Bench! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I have a few questions, cause I am about to do this. did you do all four corners at once? Do I need 8 scales? Or did you jack up and move each corner one at a time... Or front then back... Please let me know...I gotta go buy some scales. Rich |
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| McMark |
Apr 13 2007, 12:39 PM
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#47
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
You need 8 scales. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Keep us posted on how it works for you.
Oh and you really should balance with your weight in the car. We balanced Andy's car with him in the drivers seat and me reading the scales. |
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| John |
Apr 13 2007, 01:17 PM
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#48
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
The only way to get an untwisted car to corner balance and have the chassis level is when the car is unloaded and on level ground.
When you add the driver's weight to one side, it will effect the way the car sits (when done, it will sit high on the drivers' side). If you want the car to look statically straight while parked, you do the corner balance while NO driver is in it. If you want the best handling car, you corner balance with driver weight in the seat and the car set-up exactly like it will be run. The car may sit strangely (without massive springs), but it will be balanced and offer balanced handling. just my $0.02 P.S. I only use 4 scales. My version of "Ruggles" scales offer a 4:1 ratio so a single 300# scale is enough per wheel. |
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| McMark |
Apr 13 2007, 01:42 PM
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#49
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
What do you mean sit weird? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1145755703.jpg) |
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| r_towle |
Apr 13 2007, 01:47 PM
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#50
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,645 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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the nice part is I have three boys, all my size...
So that will be a non issue...sit here, be quiet.. I also have loads of free weights if they are busy. Rich |
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| John |
Apr 13 2007, 08:10 PM
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#51
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(McMark @ Apr 13 2007, 11:42 AM) What do you mean sit weird? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1145755703.jpg) Yes, Andy's car WAS twisted, and in that picture it does sit weird. I would like to see a comparison with an AFTER pic of Andy's car after all the work has been done to straighten it an to make it go faster. BTW, what did that car look like with ANDY sitting in it? Was it more level? (Just how much weight was in the Drivers' seat when it was corner balanced?) |
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| SirAndy |
Apr 13 2007, 10:24 PM
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#52
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,891 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(John @ Apr 13 2007, 06:10 PM) BTW, what did that car look like with ANDY sitting in it? Was it more level? (Just how much weight was in the Drivers' seat when it was corner balanced?) all of my ~220 lbs in the drivers seat. BUT, i run 250lbs springs, so the car actually doesn't move much when i get in. even with me in the seat, it was still very much tweaked ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy |
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| John |
Apr 13 2007, 10:46 PM
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#53
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Apr 13 2007, 08:24 PM) QUOTE(John @ Apr 13 2007, 06:10 PM) BTW, what did that car look like with ANDY sitting in it? Was it more level? (Just how much weight was in the Drivers' seat when it was corner balanced?) all of my ~220 lbs in the drivers seat. BUT, i run 250lbs springs, so the car actually doesn't move much when i get in. even with me in the seat, it was still very much tweaked ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy Let's see an after pic. Isn't it done YET??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) |
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| doper |
Apr 13 2007, 10:49 PM
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#54
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Member Group: Members Posts: 59 Joined: 31-January 07 From: midwest Member No.: 7,494 |
Gents,
If you ever get to the mid west I have real nice alignment bench I'd be happy to let you use for a beer or two ..... if it would help .... later |
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| doper |
Apr 13 2007, 10:51 PM
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#55
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Member Group: Members Posts: 59 Joined: 31-January 07 From: midwest Member No.: 7,494 |
Umm .. I should specify ... northern mid-west ... although I send a crap load of time in KC I'm 800 miles north ...
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| SirAndy |
Apr 14 2007, 12:12 AM
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#56
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,891 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(John @ Apr 13 2007, 08:46 PM) Let's see an after pic. Isn't it done YET??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) nope, it's not done yet ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) and the corner balance is the second to last thing on the list, right before the alignment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) Andy |
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