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> PMS bar mount failure, the picture
nocones
post Apr 26 2006, 08:26 AM
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And...


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Trekkor
post Apr 26 2006, 08:48 AM
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Thanks for the pics, Micheal.

I'll take it!!!


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
The 7018 welding rod that we are thinking of using to repair the mount is rated at 70,000 PSI tensile strength.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
Maybe I should listen to *everyone*.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
I think we can overbuild the bar so it can't break.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
What if there is a next time?


Hmmmm...



KT
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anthony
post Apr 26 2006, 08:53 AM
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You did your six conversion in record time, what's a Saturday (or maybe half a Saturday) to install a RJ mount? I don't understand why you are still considering repairing this piece of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif).
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Eric_Shea
post Apr 26 2006, 09:00 AM
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Because he just spent the Rich mount money on a roll cage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)
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Trekkor
post Apr 26 2006, 09:02 AM
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It's not about the money...

What is it about then?

OK, now I'm talking to myself.

Well, what is it about?

Good question.


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BKLA
post Apr 26 2006, 09:05 AM
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I climbed under my sixer last night and took a gander at the PMS bar mounted on my conversion. I agree that the bar design places a torque stress on the plate/welds as it is forward of the centerline of the stock 914 4 cross member mounts.

I don't plan on racing the car, but I may decide to do an AX once in a while. My question is: Should I trade out the bar to the PMS bulkhead mount (bolted) or just leave it alone?

The Rich johnson mount would be the way to go but my chassis is so clean and nice, I don't want to mess it up with welding. (Not to mention the down time - NO MORE JACK STANDS - at least for a while (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

Opinions?
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Trekkor
post Apr 26 2006, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE
what's a Saturday (or maybe half a Saturday)


That may have been the reality check I needed.


KT
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BKLA
post Apr 26 2006, 09:26 AM
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KT -

If I were going to race my car, I'd replace the PMS bar that I have, with the rich Johnson style welded bulkhead mount. Just my opinion. I think I just answered my own question - I think I'll put on the PMS bolted bulkhead mount.

Another thought -

I'll bet that the Stanford or Berkeley engineering schools could (would) be interested in doing a metal fatigue analysis for little or no cost. I would ask and then ask PMS if they would pay for it. I would be interested in seeing how the stresses are distributed through the mount and where the metal is most vulnerable.
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fiid
post Apr 26 2006, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE(trekkor @ Apr 25 2006, 09:48 PM) *

I'm going to have my welder evaluate the bar and the welds or lack there of.

If he can make my bar ultra-strong, I'll run it again and keep a close eye on it.

If I can get it to hold up for the rest of the driving season I will leave it.

It it blows up again I will use something differant.

What would you do?

KT



If it was later in the season - it might be worth trying to patch the bar up, but I think patching it up and adding strength to it may take longer than doing an install on a bulkhead mount (based on what people are saying here). Also - it seems like the bulkhead mounts are easily avalable and not to terrifying to install - I would probably take the hit and go that way.

Plus I know how much 6s cost, so I'd be pretty nervous about breaking one. The subie engine I have can be replaced for $600, which isn't free, but is a lot cheaper than a 6.

Having seen the design flaw and how it relates to what I've observed with subaru engines I firmly believe that the PMS mount is a flawed solution. If I was doing a 6, I'd be using a bulkhead mount. Esp - since it makes the car closer to original.

You did ask (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)... just my 2c..... I wonder if you can guilt PMS into overnighting you a bulkhead mount so you can install it over the weekend (or friday evening (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )
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Aaron Cox
post Apr 26 2006, 10:07 AM
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why are we still talking about this?

EVERYONE said go bulkhead.
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slivel
post Apr 26 2006, 10:14 AM
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Just for another data point to this discussion. I started with the PMS bar when my 914 was converted to a six. It was the generation 1 bar and the car was track use only. On the first track event my transmission shifting became very difficult. Reason.... the PMS bar had bent dropping the engine and bar down on to the shift rod binding it. The bar was replaced with another and the same thing happened. After much frustration I went to a bulkhead mount and have been trouble free for years. If PMS says their bar is not for track use ...BELIEVE them.
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Trekkor
post Apr 26 2006, 05:33 PM
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I found posts #'s 38, 65, 114 and 171 to be most helpful.

Thanks
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Mueller
post Apr 26 2006, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE(trekkor @ Apr 26 2006, 04:33 PM) *

I found posts #'s 38, 65, 114 and 171 to be most helpful.

Thanks



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
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Cap'n Krusty
post Apr 26 2006, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Apr 25 2006, 11:19 PM) *

deceased equine......


you can leade a horse to water but you cant make him drink.


seems the water dont taste good to him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Especially if it's a dead horse ...................... The Cap'n
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Rand
post Apr 26 2006, 05:55 PM
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I beginning to think we're gonna spend more time talking about a bulkhead mount than it would take to install one.
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bd1308
post Apr 26 2006, 06:06 PM
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trek i'll cut up your tranny ears, and you can just give me your SIX.

we'll call it even.
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Trekkor
post Apr 26 2006, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE
spend more time talking


We've already done that...twice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)


QUOTE
i'll cut up your tranny ears, and you can just give me your SIX.


Drive out here in your FOUR and we'll get started.


My welder comes over tonight at 7:00 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)


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bd1308
post Apr 26 2006, 06:47 PM
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crap!

my FOUR doesnt run....

but with 250 dollars and a 1997 land rover, i'll be there by 6:45 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

b
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grantsfo
post Apr 26 2006, 07:54 PM
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This is what is on its way to me to replace my PMS bar. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)



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GWN7
post Apr 26 2006, 08:16 PM
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I haven't added my 2 cents yet....

Lets see...proven..strong and safe or proven poor design and brakes....Hmmmm

We should call this pic "Now where did that motor go?"


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