 PMS bar mount failure, the picture |
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| MEMtheMercifull |
 Apr 24 2006, 09:09 PM
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#81
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Mark E. Mayes  Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 6-April 06 From: San Diego California Member No.: 5,830  |
QUOTE(trekkor @ Apr 24 2006, 01:37 PM)  Thanks Joe, I'll keep you in mind. really nice of you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) My buddy might just be willing to drive up with his truck mounted welding rig and fix it on site. : welder: It has to come out of the car to be repaired properly, I can see that very clearly. KT Especially if you don't want to start a car be Q or blow yourself up (Just a thought) |
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| Trekkor |
Apr 24 2006, 09:09 PM
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#82
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE shoo thank goodness I have a FOUR. So glad I had ignore feature on, LOL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) If this was a u-weld-it kit, we wouldn't be having this discussion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) KT |
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| Joe Bob |
Apr 24 2006, 09:10 PM
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#83
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Retired admin, banned a few times Group: Members Posts: 17,427 Joined: 24-December 02 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 5 Region Association: None |
Ahem......
Gee, I don't know what to say......besides.... Ahem...... Hack, cough....... PMS sucks..... Sorry to see it happen but this is nothing new with this guy. |
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| banksyinoz |
Apr 24 2006, 09:12 PM
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#84
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finally getting back into it Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 17-June 05 From: queensland, aus Member No.: 4,293 Region Association: Australia and New Zealand |
i would have to say that only god himself could help what will happen to the person responsible for that !!!!
WHAT WAS IT A 15 YEAROLD KID damn who quality assures this product if its got my name on it i wanna check it, its my (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) gettin kicked |
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| Trekkor |
Apr 24 2006, 09:16 PM
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#85
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I knew I could count on you Mikey. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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| joea9146 |
Apr 24 2006, 09:28 PM
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#86
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 663 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Denver, NC Member No.: 283 Region Association: None |
To save on costs the Bars are not welded, they use JB weld to hold them together.... On second thought if they did use JB weld u may not have had the problem... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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| Joe Bob |
Apr 24 2006, 09:32 PM
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#87
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Retired admin, banned a few times Group: Members Posts: 17,427 Joined: 24-December 02 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 5 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(trekkor @ Apr 24 2006, 08:16 PM) I'm here to help. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Life is too short to have to buy crap from a guy that doesn't back his product AND is an asshole. Buy the good stuff and have an enjoyable experience. Those bars have a history of failure. No dis on your motor...but it's only a 2.0. There are people out there with 300 hp sixes using that crap.....not only is the design suspect but the workmanship would have to improve to be labeled as shoddy. I will be surprised if he replaces the bar or refunds your money. History shows that he won't. For your sake I hope he does....something. BTW, the last thing I would do is use the same design bar as a replacement. Consider that it's a COPY of an AA product.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) |
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| Trekkor |
Apr 24 2006, 09:39 PM
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#88
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
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| LvSteveH |
Apr 24 2006, 10:56 PM
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#89
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I put the Poor in Porsche Group: Members Posts: 1,080 Joined: 22-April 03 From: Las Vegas, Nevada Member No.: 600 |
QUOTE(MEMtheMercifull @ Apr 24 2006, 08:06 PM) QUOTE(LvSteveH @ Apr 24 2006, 01:38 PM) My laptop screen isn't the best, but it looks like it was welded on the inside. A nice filet weld around there should be super strong, someone just had no idea what they were doing. That's one of the dangerous things about Mig, it can look ok, and have no strength to it. When you are welding, it's plain as day when you get good penetration if you know what to look for. I don't think it needs to be beefed up so much as done properly. on edit: I'd like to see them use a little thicker plate too, if we're being picky. I beg to differ if you know what your doing mig welding is just fine ( Key action words being " Know what your doing " Well, I am certified in Mig, Tig, and Stick..... or if you prefer GMAW GTAW SMAW FCAW and I would gladly hang my car from 1" of good weld. I never said Mig was an inferior process, I said it has the disadvantage of being able to produce welds that look decent, but have almost no integrity. A VAST majority of guys with a Mig in their garage do not have the skill to produce high quality welds. I would rather see someone learn Tig, Stick, and Gas Welding, then move on to Mig. By then they know how to weld, and can get the high deposition rate Mig has to offer while still producing a quality weld. With regard to this particular fixture, I'd prefer to mig it over stick, but some guys can work magic with stick, and I'd have no hesitation trusting it. If that's what your guy is comfortable with, it's fine. Tig would really be the best, but not necessary here. I'm not trying to make welding out to be a black art, but any monkey can pull the trigger on a mig, and in an hour or so learn to lay a nice bead. Creating a structurally sound weld that you will risk you life on is an entirely different matter. |
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| Trekkor |
Apr 24 2006, 11:01 PM
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#90
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
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| Engman |
Apr 24 2006, 11:09 PM
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#91
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Zoisite Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,349 Joined: 25-March 03 From: New Albany, IN Member No.: 475  |
Jeeeezzzzz
Mikey - took ya long enough! M |
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| Jeroen |
Apr 25 2006, 05:01 AM
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#92
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,887 Joined: 24-December 02 From: The Netherlands Member No.: 3 Region Association: Europe |
I don't mean to rub it in in any way, but look at the welds on an RJ bulk head mount
Those are prolly the most beautiful TIG welds you'd ever see |
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| grantsfo |
Apr 25 2006, 07:32 AM
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#93
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Jeroen @ Apr 25 2006, 04:01 AM) I don't mean to rub it in in any way, but look at the welds on an RJ bulk head mount Those are prolly the most beautiful TIG welds you'd ever see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif) |
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| ChrisFoley |
Apr 25 2006, 07:44 AM
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#94
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,937 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None 
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QUOTE(Series9 @ Apr 24 2006, 04:42 PM) Besides just welding, it should be stress relieved in an oven. If it's mild steel that shouldn't be necessary. That part does have a lot of stress in that location though. Since the outer mounts are not in line with the inner mounts there's a substantial rotational moment with stress concentration at that weld joint. Whoever designed/built/inspected it didn't understand the forces involved. Seems easy enough to repair. A small gusset in the top corner would mitigate the stress concentration problem. |
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| Trekkor |
Apr 25 2006, 10:18 AM
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#95
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I've had several contacts with Jim at PMS now to resolve this problem both on the phone and in E-mail. He is not dodging me or minimizing the failure.
Please understand that my goal is to get my car back on the road, not tear somebody down. Jim is concerned with this part failure, you can be sure. My other goal is to alert him to the poor quality weld work that may be slipping past any quality control that may be in place. If my car gets back on the road and he can improve his product for future drivers, then all is well. Sure, I'm mad about the welds and the potential risk I faced and the down time to fix the car. I'm not mad at Jim. He has made it very clear that he wants to resolve this with me ASAP so I can make my a/x on May 6th. Support the vendors, KT |
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| Tom Perso |
Apr 25 2006, 10:28 AM
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#96
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Crazy from the Cold... Group: Members Posts: 647 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Kalamazoo, MI Member No.: 1,003 |
I think any person who has a part failure has every right to show the issue to the vendor. Of course, the intent is to not rub in the failure, but to point out a flaw to help improve their process.
I hope the vendor takes your positive critisism to heart. Regardless, sounds like you've got the issue taken care of KT... Tom |
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| Porcharu |
Apr 25 2006, 10:39 AM
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#97
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 27-January 05 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 3,518 Region Association: Northern California |
Like I said before. Where's the weld? I bet this was a Friday afternoon job - it got tacked together late Friday and then packed up and painted with the rest of the finished mounts on Monday morning.
I'm sure I don't need to say this but - you need to do your own CQ on anything you buy if it's failure would be bad. QUOTE(trekkor @ Apr 24 2006, 07:26 PM) It gets better ( I mean worse ) Please be seated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Look at all three sides of the mount plate itself. "Where's the Bead?!?" KT |
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| siverson |
Apr 25 2006, 10:52 AM
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#98
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Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,448 Joined: 5-May 03 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 654 Region Association: Southern California
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> Jim Patrick called me back and said he has never
> seen his product fail like this. He was very nice to > speak with. I think he was inda shocked. What is he talking about?!?! This bar fails all the time. I know he's heard of many, including mine several years ago. Why is he still selling these? -Steve Attached image(s) 
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| siverson |
Apr 25 2006, 10:52 AM
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#99
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Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,448 Joined: 5-May 03 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 654 Region Association: Southern California
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| siverson |
Apr 25 2006, 10:53 AM
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#100
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Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,448 Joined: 5-May 03 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 654 Region Association: Southern California
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914
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