Timing a /6, What the hell have I gotten myself into!? Options

[Dr Evil]

Thanks for the link.

I also for got to mention that I cleaned, inspected and tested all of the injectors.

[Dr Evil]

Jeff, that link really cleared a bunch of things up for me. Thanks a bunch. I think I can chase down some of these issues now.

I just need to find the IDLE set screw.

[lapuwali]

The fuel distributor could be varnished up from sitting with gas in it. With CIS, you can't just clean the injectors and get a clean system.

Very lean does not make an engine run hot. Peak CHT, in fact, occurs just barely rich of stoichoimetric. Leaner than that, and it runs cooler. If oil temp is your only guide, you have to run for quite a long time to get the oil temp to show much difference due to mixture. Even then, the change would be small enough that it would be hard to see on a typical oil temp gauge.

[Dr Evil]

The fuel distributor could be varnished up from sitting with gas in it. With CIS, you can't just clean the injectors and get a clean system.

Very lean does not make an engine run hot. Peak CHT, in fact, occurs just barely rich of stoichoimetric. Leaner than that, and it runs cooler. If oil temp is your only guide, you have to run for quite a long time to get the oil temp to show much difference due to mixture. Even then, the change would be small enough that it would be hard to see on a typical oil temp gauge.

Originally the plunger for the distributor was varnished and needed attention. How would I unvarnish the inside parts other than that?

I have a CHT and oil. I can't afford to goof with wrecking this engine, I have no job or money to fix any catastrophic occurances (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I bet you loved using the word "stoichiometric", admit it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Get this, originally the engine had a straw (one like the ones that come wiht your WD 40 can ) stuck into the air intake boot between the throttle body anf the fuel flap (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I guess the previous owner could not find the adjustment stuff either. At least I ask.

[lapuwali]

Ah, you took the plunger out. I don't know of many people brave enough to do that. The tolerances on the internal parts of the fuel distributor are (apparently) ridiculously tight. If the plunger was varnished, it's possible (likely, even) that the per-cylinder nozzles inside the distributor are, as well.

You might try running a bottle or two of Techron through the system.

[Dr Evil]

Actually, to stop the tail chasing on my side, I put all of the injectors in bottles and they all flowed (after I cleaned two of them) enough...I actually thought that they flowed a lot (maybe too much) of fuel.

Let me goof with the damn adjustments before you go freaking me out with what expensive parts I destroyed or need to replace (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[sixnotfour]

I just need to find the IDLE set screw.

If the throttle plate stop screw ,still has yellow paint on it dont mess with it. Most adjustment is air bypass screw (big springloaded flat head) by throttle lever and fuel mixture. 3mm screw (threw hole in housing in between fuel distributor and boot.)
Unless as James state is true and or some one really messed with it probably needs basic adjustments. Good Luck

[Dr Evil]

Where the hell is the idle mixture setting screw? I know where to adjust the air, but not the fuel and the book and various sources are no help as of yet.

[Dr Evil]

Sorry, you posted when I was typing.

[sixnotfour]

3mm screw (threw hole in housing in between fuel distributor and boot.)

takes a long allen wrench

[Dr Evil]

And today in /6 news....

So I took the air filter off to monkey with the plunger from underneatha nd see if I could figure out more how it all works. I found the little hole inbetween the dist and the intake boot for adjusting the mixture...I am pretty sure it had been goofed with during its life.

Further diagnostic concepts/settings to thnk about:
1. I screwed the air bypass all the way in. It was rediculously out. this lead to much less popping, but no real running.
2. Upon removal of the air filter I noticed a nice smoke cloud comeing form the air box, = too rich now?
3. I thought too rich so I slowly added air to the mix withthe screw in 1/4 turns. Smoke disappeared and engine returened to normal, non running well condition.
4. I am alone, so I put a spacer in the air box to prop up the air plate about 1mm. tried to start, no real improvement....hard to tell.


I have a question about the plate set up:

-Does the plate have a washer that is supposed to go under it as it attaches to the arm? For some reason I thought it did, and that mine was missing this part.

I need to get a longer allen. I believe it to be a 4mm actually as my 3 will reach it but seems to just turn freely in the socket.

[Dr Evil]

Looking at this diagram I see where the adjust bolt should be, but instead it is like a hook.
Also, I do not see a shim under the plate. I am missing the washer on top, but it is of no consequence with my given problems.

[sixnotfour]

#8 on your diagram is the plug pull it out and insert 3mm long arm allen into hole it will enter allen screw on#11 , that adjusts plunger hieght ,making rich or leaner

[Dr Evil]

The more I study the diagram the more I realize that I may have a substantial air leak where it looks like #8 goes on top of the adjuster.

Anyone have an idea about that?

[Dr Evil]

Ayup, I do not have a #8.....might be a problem.

[sixnotfour]

alot of them are missing #8 , not an air leak for mixture, a dirt entry point though

[Dr Evil]

Doing some more noodling on this. From the web site I posted earlier on the CIS I found a great pic (below). I find it hard to see how air could not leak in if #8 was missing, though. Ah well, I'll make it make sense.

Interesting to note, smdubovsky reminded me that my advance may not have worked in my dizzy due to stuck fly weights. I was like, "It has flyweights?" Sure does, and they were not optimal, so I cleaned them. Cleaned the points plates as well. Will have to see how it goes.

I got a long 3mm allen for my mixture control. It is definetly screwed up some how. I get it to barely idle for a couple of seconds with no throttle cold. As soon as I touch the petal it dies. Also, after I do this is smokes a lot. Very stinky.

Here are the instrucitons from the web site:

An approximation of the correct idle mixture can be made by the folllowing:

* With the engine warm and running, slightly lift the air flow sensor plate.
* If the RPM immediately falls off, the mixture is probably too rich.
* If you pull down, and the idle falls off, you could either be too lean, or about right. Do the step immediately below to find out.
* If the RPM slightly rises, then falls off as you continue to raise the sensor plate, it may be close to right.
* You are trying for about 14.7:1.
* The required movement of the sensor plate is slight, on the order of maybe a 1/16" or less.

[lapuwali]

Air "leaking" in through the #8 hole still has to go up past the plate to get into the engine, so that's not a air leak that will affect mixture. All that does is give you a idle air leak, restricting (slightly) your ability to adjust the idle speed. If you can still get the idle speed down to 800-900rpm, that hole isn't significant. If you can't, just put some tape over it to see if that helps.

If you're getting black stinky smoke, then you're probably way rich at idle. If I remember correctly, you don't have a cold-start valve anymore, right? If not, try turning the idle mixture screw a full turn (this is a huge adjustment) lean. If you can beg, borrow, or steal a wideband mixture meter, or time on a gas analyzer, I'd do so.

[Dr Evil]

Thanks James. The smoke is grey and stinky, not black if that matters. I have disconnected the CSV.

I would bet the PO messed with the settings as I remember a small hose (like the one that comes with a can of WD 40) poking out of the air intake boot. Seems like he was trying to lean out the mixture in a most retarded way.