Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  1 2 >  
 Reply to this topicStart new topic
> More on rebuilt FI distributers..., A1 Cardone Dizzy
RustyWa
post Oct 6 2003, 10:18 PM
Post #1


Working Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 610
Joined: 2-January 03
From: Kent, WA
Member No.: 72
I forgot to take photos of this, but I might in a few days. On my rebuilt dizzy, I noticed that the cam lobe for the FI trigger points was at a different location than what my stock dizzy had it at.

Going from memory, on the stock dizzy, the point on the cam lobe was pretty much lined up to at the #1 spark. On the rebuilt, it was like 30-45 degrees off of this point. I can't remember if it was before or after #1.

Anyone ever notice this before?

Would it make a difference for the fuel timing?

Doesn't the fuel charge just sit in the intake anyways waiting for the valve to open.

I'll try to get some photos later on.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ArtechnikA
post Oct 7 2003, 01:23 AM
Post #2


rich herzog
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,390
Joined: 4-April 03
From: Salted Roads, PA
Member No.: 513
Region Association: None
QUOTE(RustyWa @ Oct 6 2003, 08:18 PM)
Doesn't the fuel charge just sit in the intake anyways waiting for the valve to open.

DJet fires injectors in pairs, so two cylinders get squirted more-or-less in sequence with the intake valve open, the other two have the charge waiting in the port. i don't recall which two fire in which pairs, but i bet Brad Anders page has the whole deal. (i don't know nothin' 'bout no T-IV's ...)

as for the point lobes lining up with anything in particular - i donno. on most cars you want the rotor pointing pretty much directly at the plugwire tower on the cap when the points open. the T-IV dizzy is keyed to go in only one way (unlike the 911 dizzies, f'rinstance, which have a drive gear...). the T-IV dizzy drive shaft has a gear, but AFAIK they're all the same - so once again - i donno ...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RustyWa
post Oct 7 2003, 02:49 PM
Post #3


Working Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 610
Joined: 2-January 03
From: Kent, WA
Member No.: 72
Hmm.. Not a lot of interest in this topic. I guess I should have asked people to post a photo of mommy along with there responses....

(Please, no mother photos....)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ChrisReale
post Oct 7 2003, 02:56 PM
Post #4


Sleazy
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,665
Joined: 20-January 03
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 176
2 and 4, and 1 and 3. Trigger points fire the injectors in those pairs.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
914werke
post Oct 7 2003, 03:03 PM
Post #5


"I got blisters on me fingers"
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,190
Joined: 22-March 03
From: USofA
Member No.: 453
Region Association: Pacific Northwest
Im interested in this Topic as I am planning to go this route as soon as I collect a core Dizzy from Geoff.
What FLAPS did you use to aquire that Dizzy?
I recall from another thread that this is the second one and the first was a 411 or 1.7 listed (scribed Part #) dizzy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Also is it true that it came fully loaded with Trigger Points ?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RustyWa
post Oct 7 2003, 03:29 PM
Post #6


Working Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 610
Joined: 2-January 03
From: Kent, WA
Member No.: 72
This is actually my 3rd try at getting a rebuilt dizzy. I purchased them all at Schucks.

The first one had the 'housing' of a type 3. I got nervous with that one and sent it back.

The second one was also from a type 3, it had the same numbers but was a different dizzy. I decided to keep this one and try it out. I figured that when they rebuild these things they more than likely break them down and throw the parts into 'big bins' of individual pieces awaiting refurbishing. Then just grab parts out of the bins and rebuild them, I don't think that housing number on the side even matters.

Well, I got this one home and took it semi apart to check it out. It looked ok. When I was installing it, it turns out that the damn rotor was to big to fit on the shaft!..so this second one went back.

The third one I got actually arrived with an 022 number on it, but I noticed that the lobe inside was in a different location. I installed it and the car seems to run fine with it.

This 3rd one had new points, a new condenser and rebuilt FI trigger points.

The pissy thing about this whole process is that it didn't cure my problem of the car stumbling at 2500 RPMs and up. I think it might have been my FI injection harness because I wiggled a lot of the connections and the problem went away.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RustyWa
post Oct 7 2003, 03:30 PM
Post #7


Working Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 610
Joined: 2-January 03
From: Kent, WA
Member No.: 72
Oh one more thing...there was a $1 core charge. I kept my old one for parts.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MarkV
post Oct 7 2003, 03:56 PM
Post #8


Fear the Jack Stands
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,493
Joined: 15-January 03
From: Sunny Tucson, AZ
Member No.: 154
Region Association: None
So where did the third one come from?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MarkV
post Oct 7 2003, 03:58 PM
Post #9


Fear the Jack Stands
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,493
Joined: 15-January 03
From: Sunny Tucson, AZ
Member No.: 154
Region Association: None
Oh just noticed that they all came from Schucks. I think that is the same as Checker Auto out here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
914werke
post Oct 7 2003, 06:30 PM
Post #10


"I got blisters on me fingers"
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,190
Joined: 22-March 03
From: USofA
Member No.: 453
Region Association: Pacific Northwest
And "Kragen" elseware (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
nebreitling
post Oct 7 2003, 07:02 PM
Post #11


Member Emeritus
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,314
Joined: 26-March 03
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 478
QUOTE(RustyWa @ Oct 7 2003, 01:29 PM)
The pissy thing about this whole process is that it didn't cure my problem of the car stumbling at 2500 RPMs and up. I think it might have been my FI injection harness because I wiggled a lot of the connections and the problem went away.

hi eric

sorry the dizzy didn't fix it (at least you won't have to mess with that for a while now), but i'm curious if you "permanently" fixed the stumbling problem by messing with the harness? were you able to track down were the problem in the harness was?

i've still got that flatspot at 4600 rpm. not a huge deal because my engine rarely sees more than 4500, but annoying when the occassion comes up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

have your tried swapping MPS's yet? recalibrating mine helped; but now i'm wondering if there is a small mechanical failure inside it....

n
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
r_towle
post Oct 7 2003, 07:39 PM
Post #12


Custom Member
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 24,598
Joined: 9-January 03
From: Taxachusetts
Member No.: 124
Region Association: North East States
Guys, I would not mees around with those Shucks parts, go to Otto's in venice, he has a web site, and sells rebuilt Type 4 FI dizzys on the front page.

he is a real legend and a pro at what he does.

rich
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RustyWa
post Oct 7 2003, 09:24 PM
Post #13


Working Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 610
Joined: 2-January 03
From: Kent, WA
Member No.: 72
Rich, that is still an option....

I was planning on getting one from Rich over at HPH for $120 if the 3rd one didn't/doesn't work out.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RustyWa
post Oct 7 2003, 11:35 PM
Post #14


Working Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 610
Joined: 2-January 03
From: Kent, WA
Member No.: 72
There seems to be a few mass produced rebuilt dizzys out there, so here's some more info for the archives.....

Well, these are not the photos I was originally going to get, but I think they should illustrate a little better of how the two dizzys compare as far as differences of the cam lobes.

My stock dizzy is the two diagrams on top. The two below are the rebuilt dizzy.

The notch in the dizzy for the #1 cyl. is marked at approx. the 4 o'clock position and the notch for the cap is marked at 6 o'clock. Typical.

The dark zone illustrates the continuity area on the FI trigger points as the rotor/shaft is rotated. The left diagrams are for terminal pair 21/12 and the rights are the 12/22 pair. The "continuity zones" didn't seem to be quite 180 degrees....but I was just eyeballing it, so the zones could be off a few degrees.

I'm not sure if this difference even matters because the injector is only going to fire (milliseconds) at one spot within the zone.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
dan10101
post Oct 7 2003, 11:57 PM
Post #15


TORQUE-o-holic
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,140
Joined: 29-April 03
From: Eagle Point, Or
Member No.: 626
Region Association: Pacific Northwest
Ok, I'm not really following this, here's a question.

If we take the points out and put in Electronic ignition with one of the plastic things that pass thru a electronic Eye. Does the points trigger have to line up with the FI trigger points in some way?

(if you understood that I'll be shocked..) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

DanD
Still runing on points... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Bleyseng
post Oct 8 2003, 08:46 AM
Post #16


Aircooled Baby!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 13,035
Joined: 27-December 02
From: Seattle, Washington (for now)
Member No.: 24
Region Association: Pacific Northwest
What the heck is that Eric? Very weird....

The whole point of the rebuilt is to get a dizzy with the shaft rebushed. Its easy to install all the rest of the parts yourself.

Geoff
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RustyWa
post Oct 8 2003, 01:46 PM
Post #17


Working Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 610
Joined: 2-January 03
From: Kent, WA
Member No.: 72
It was my very good attempt at confusing everyone...but it was a bad attempt to show the position of where the FI trigger points are in the closed position as the dizzy shaft is rotated.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DNHunt
post Oct 8 2003, 02:43 PM
Post #18


914 Wizard? No way. I got too much to learn.
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,099
Joined: 21-April 03
From: Gig Harbor, WA
Member No.: 598
Rusty

My 2 cents

I think I get what you are trying to show. It looks to me like the lobes on the dizzy shaft are 90 degrees off in relationship to the cam and 180 degrees off in relationship to the crankshaft. I suspect that both charges from the injector are sitting in the intake manifold waiting for the intake valve to open. Normally, I believe, one injection pulse would be at the back off an open intake valve. It seems to me that the problem with this would be when the intake is cold and fuel vapor could condense.

I took apart an old dizzy to see if the lobes could be rotated. I don't know how those suckers are put on but I couldn't budge it.

I guess if it was me I take it back.

I feel for ya, I know it gets frustrating

Dave
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mharrison
post Oct 8 2003, 07:37 PM
Post #19


Why do I bother????
***

Group: Members
Posts: 633
Joined: 8-September 03
From: Madison, MS
Member No.: 1,123
I got a rebuilt dizzy at Advance Auto Parts. It is the A1 Cardone. It had the correct numbers. I didn't take it apart, but I will be firing it off this weekend. I'll let you know.

BTW, that was on the first try. Yes it came fully loaded with Points and Condensor.

-Matt
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RustyWa
post Oct 15 2003, 11:15 PM
Post #20


Working Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 610
Joined: 2-January 03
From: Kent, WA
Member No.: 72
I've FINALLY come across some information about the "existence" of different FI injector pulse timings in the 914/4 distributors.

Clymer service manual, 914 1970-1975
page 129, Fuel System

"On 1970-1971 models, injectors 1 and 3 inject when the respective intake valve is open, while injectors 2 and 4 inject when the respective intake valve is closed. On 1972 and 1973 models, all injection takes place behind closed intake valves. Fuel is effectively stored in the intake ports of cylinders until the intake valve opens."

No mention is given to engine sizes. Interesting stuff.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
« Next Oldest · 914World Garage · Next Newest »
 

2 Pages V  1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Display Mode: Standard · Switch to: Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 26th June 2024 - 04:24 AM
Invision Power Board v9.1.4 © 2024  IPS, Inc.
All rights reserved 914World.com © since 2002
914World.com is the fastest growing online 914 community!
We have it all, classifieds, events, forums, vendors, parts, autocross, racing, technical articles, events calendar, newsletter, restoration, gallery, archives, history and more for your Porsche 914 ...