 DOT5. What does it do to regular brake seals, etc?, Do you need anything special to use it? |
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| RoadGlue |
 Jul 14 2006, 12:18 AM
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#21
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Sonoma County Gear Head  Group: Admin Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 108 Region Association: Northern California 
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QUOTE(Air_Cooled_Nut @ Jul 13 2006, 11:17 PM)  Pouring more water into the DOT-5: Pouring more water into the DOT-4: Do you mind seeing what happens when you mix the two brake fluids together? |
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
Jul 14 2006, 12:19 AM
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#22
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
How they look from above, florescent lighting:
 How they look with a flash (true color):  Now do you believe it's purple? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
Jul 14 2006, 12:20 AM
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#23
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Jul 13 2006, 11:18 PM) QUOTE(Air_Cooled_Nut @ Jul 13 2006, 11:17 PM) Pouring more water into the DOT-5: Pouring more water into the DOT-4: Do you mind seeing what happens when you mix the two brake fluids together? Quite posting and let me finish...I haven't gotten to those pictures yet! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| McMark |
Jul 14 2006, 12:21 AM
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#24
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) Burn on you Randy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
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| RoadGlue |
Jul 14 2006, 12:22 AM
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#25
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Sonoma County Gear Head Group: Admin Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 108 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(Air_Cooled_Nut @ Jul 13 2006, 11:20 PM) Quit posting and let me finish...I haven't gotten to those pictures yet! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Haha! You got it! |
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| RoadGlue |
Jul 14 2006, 12:23 AM
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#26
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Sonoma County Gear Head Group: Admin Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 108 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 13 2006, 11:21 PM) Hush... let the man work! : (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) |
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
Jul 14 2006, 12:26 AM
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#27
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
Here's what the DOT-5 and DOT-4 look like when I pour the DOT-5 into the DOT-4. Notice the separation? And the water from the DOT-5 that spilled past is mixing in with the DOT-4 (the swirling is the water/DOT-4 mixing):
 Here's the DOT-4 shot glass after a minute of sitting from when the DOT-5 was added:  Definite separation between the two. And FYI, the two fluids will NEVER combine! A listee on the Type 3 email list has a jar on his work bench that's over 15 years old that has DOT-5 on top of some DOT-3. Every once in a while he'll shake the jar but they separate and stay that way. Unlike synthetic oil and conventional oil, the two brake fluids cannot combine. Okay, I'm done! |
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| McMark |
Jul 14 2006, 12:29 AM
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#28
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Sounds like you're silicone free Randy. Congrats!!!
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| RoadGlue |
Jul 14 2006, 12:35 AM
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#29
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Sonoma County Gear Head Group: Admin Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 108 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 13 2006, 11:29 PM) Sounds like you're silicone free Randy. Congrats!!! No, I think I do have silicone now. Take a look at my photos again. My brake fluid combination results are the same at Tobys (thank you Toby!!!!). The two fluids won't combine. What's in the car now is silicone, so I need to decide if I should try flushing out what's in there with the ATE superblue. The colors are probably confusing you. My Dot5 is a different brand and is clear, while my Dot4 fluid is blue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What came out of my car is the clear stuff. |
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| RoadGlue |
Jul 14 2006, 12:38 AM
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#30
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Sonoma County Gear Head Group: Admin Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 108 Region Association: Northern California
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And as a followup test, I just added water to the jar with the two fluids and the water was instantly absorbed by the ATE Dot4 fluid, while the silicone fluid that I drained from the 914 is happily sitting on top.
Arg. Maybe I'll just get the silicone stuff for now and worry about flushing when I'm ready to rebuild and replace most of the brake system (as suggested). Thanks again Toby! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) |
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| McMark |
Jul 14 2006, 12:43 AM
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#31
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Ooops. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pinch.gif)
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
Jul 14 2006, 12:56 AM
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#32
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Jul 13 2006, 11:38 PM) And as a followup test, I just added water to the jar with the two fluids and the water was instantly absorbed by the ATE Dot4 fluid, while the silicone fluid that I drained from the 914 is happily sitting on top. Yes, forgot to mention, the coloring in brake fluids generally will fade. DOT-5 is supposed to be purple when fresh (so you know what you've got if you can't read the label I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ) but will fade over time. |
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| anthony |
Jul 14 2006, 01:34 AM
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#33
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2270 club Group: Benefactors Posts: 3,107 Joined: 1-February 03 From: SF Bay Area, CA Member No.: 218  |
Tip for flushing - flush with the cheap $2/can stuff and then do the final flush with Super Blue.
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| RoadGlue |
Jul 14 2006, 08:33 AM
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#34
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Sonoma County Gear Head Group: Admin Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 108 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(anthony @ Jul 14 2006, 12:34 AM) Tip for flushing - flush with the cheap $2/can stuff and then do the final flush with Super Blue. Great tip! |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Jul 14 2006, 08:56 AM
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#35
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
QUOTE(anthony @ Jul 14 2006, 12:34 AM) Tip for flushing - flush with the cheap $2/can stuff and then do the final flush with Super Blue. I may have missed something about the flushing earlier in the thread, but changing from DOT 5 to conventional brake fluid requires a dedicated flushing solution, replacement of EVERY rubber part in the brake system, then installation of the new fluid. Simply running the conventional fluid through a few times won't do it. The Cap'n |
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| RoadGlue |
Jul 14 2006, 09:03 AM
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#36
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Sonoma County Gear Head Group: Admin Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 108 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Jul 14 2006, 07:56 AM) I may have missed something about the flushing earlier in the thread, but changing from DOT 5 to conventional brake fluid requires a dedicated flushing solution, replacement of EVERY rubber part in the brake system, then installation of the new fluid. Simply running the conventional fluid through a few times won't do it. The Cap'n This was actually one of my original questions. Can you tell my why replacement of the rubber bits is essential? What happens to the rubber when you switch back and forth? Looks like I'm off to buy some more silicon fluid for the time being. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) |
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| andys |
Jul 14 2006, 09:43 AM
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#37
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 21-May 03 From: Valencia, CA Member No.: 721 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Jul 14 2006, 08:03 AM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Jul 14 2006, 07:56 AM) I may have missed something about the flushing earlier in the thread, but changing from DOT 5 to conventional brake fluid requires a dedicated flushing solution, replacement of EVERY rubber part in the brake system, then installation of the new fluid. Simply running the conventional fluid through a few times won't do it. The Cap'n This was actually one of my original questions. Can you tell my why replacement of the rubber bits is essential? What happens to the rubber when you switch back and forth? Looks like I'm off to buy some more silicon fluid for the time being. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) I too would like to know why. Some brake systems actually specify silicone grease for pre-lubing the seals. Those nice test photos are an indication of why silicone is not the prefered fluid for street appilications; it will not mix with water. This results in pockets of water that of course will boil in the caliper area at low temperatures. Silicone fluid can withstand very high temperatures which makes it suitable for race applications where regular bleeding of the system is the normal procedure. My suggestion (to ROADGLUE) would be to perform regular bleeding of your system if you elect to stay with the DOT5 fluid. Oh, and don't spill it on anything; it's nearly impossible to clean off. BTW, silicone fluid will not hurt the rubber seals. Andys |
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
Jul 14 2006, 09:52 AM
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#38
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
But water needs to get in the system first! The lower DOTs (3 & 4) are hygroscopic, meaning they ATTRACT water -- DOT-5 does not attract moisture. And iffin' enough water gets into the system, it's likely going to stay in the lowest point in the system, which is easily bled out with a couple peddle strokes.
I take it y'all didn't read the FAQ I posted above... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) |
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| Matt Romanowski |
Jul 14 2006, 09:55 AM
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#39
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 878 Joined: 4-January 04 From: Manchester, NH Member No.: 1,507 |
QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Jul 14 2006, 08:03 AM) I too would like to know why. Some brake systems actually specify silicone grease for pre-lubing the seals. Those nice test photos are an indication of why silicone is not the prefered fluid for street appilications; it will not mix with water. This results in pockets of water that of course will boil in the caliper area at low temperatures. Silicone fluid can withstand very high temperatures which makes it suitable for race applications where regular bleeding of the system is the normal procedure. My suggestion (to ROADGLUE) would be to perform regular bleeding of your system if you elect to stay with the DOT5 fluid. Oh, and don't spill it on anything; it's nearly impossible to clean off. BTW, silicone fluid will not hurt the rubber seals. Andys I would guess that the silicone grease is a very different (and smaller) chemical makeup. I would think even if it's not, the amount that mixes with brake fluid is negligable. My understanding is also that silicone fluid contributes to spongy pedal feel becuase it is actually more compressible than regular brake fluid. Matt |
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| andys |
Jul 14 2006, 11:16 AM
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#40
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 21-May 03 From: Valencia, CA Member No.: 721 Region Association: None
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[/quote] My understanding is also that silicone fluid contributes to spongy pedal feel becuase it is actually more compressible than regular brake fluid. Matt [/quote] Matt, That is quite correct. Some people are surprised at the slightly softer pedal with the use of silicone fluid. It is also a little more difficult to purge all the air out. Andys |
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