Show me your front oil cooler..., ...running through the fog light grills Options

[Aaron Cox]

Mocal, Setrab, and Fluidyne are primo coolers..... Behr and a few others also make some good ones.

Gwenster, you also have to decide where you will run your lines.

Do it GT style under the rockerpanels, and into the footwell?

have heat xchangers? or headers?

you can also run them up the heater ducts IN the longs.

then, when you get to the front of the car, you can use the Box Gusset like the GT cars did to sneak it into the front trunk,
or you can run your hose up the inner fenderwell and have it come out over by the shock tower....

[GTeener]

Mocal, Setrab, and Fluidyne are primo coolers..... Behr and a few others also make some good ones.

Gwenster, you also have to decide where you will run your lines.

Do it GT style under the rockerpanels, and into the footwell?

have heat xchangers? or headers?

you can also run them up the heater ducts IN the longs.

then, when you get to the front of the car, you can use the Box Gusset like the GT cars did to sneak it into the front trunk,
or you can run your hose up the inner fenderwell and have it come out over by the shock tower....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I do have heat exchangers.

I want to run the lines whichever way involves the least chassis cutting, hides the lines the best and provides the most protection from damage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

prices..
Coolers
MOC - 19212 19 5 3/4 - 12 AN $147.25
MOC - 19212 19 5 3/4 - 12 AN $147.25
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/cooler.htm
300 bucks in coolers....

MOC12AN- 12 180 Degree F. - $89.99
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal.htm
runnning total =390 with thermostat....

- 12 braided aeroquip hose FBA1200 $7.61 (per foot) a tad under 30 feet needed
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/aero.htm
230 bucks in hose(worst case 30 feet)
running total = 620.00

add in various fittings = 200
running total = 820

shipping from RPW = 40?

860 with primo components from ONE place on the net

[McMark]

Overhead mockup pictured below.

Aaron, 90 degree AN fittings are very tall and might interfere with the chassis. But acquiring male AN fittings and welding and extension pipe the makes a tighter 90 degree bend is possible.

Gwen, there's a lot more to figure out. Also, this is experimental. I like the idea, it makes sense to me. But it is unproven. Make sure you're comfortable with that.

2 Coolers @ $180 = $360 (shipping included in this price, not in Aaron's)
AN Lines (rubber) = $150
Thermostat = $100
AN Fittings = $200

That's $810 just in parts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[stevesc_us]

Again, there's "optimal", and there's "good enough". If even "hard driving" keeps a 3.2 under 180 degrees, it appears to be "good enough", even without a fan, even with pre-heating the cooling air, etc. This is a tidy, simple setup that's easy to do, and doesn't require much cutting of the car at all. It does the job.

I couldn't have said it any better. Yes, those are pictures of my car posted by Ricky Garcia.

Steve

[Aaron Cox]

setrab coolers in the same size are
width with mounting tabs 8 - 1/4
cooler width 6 - 3/8
height 5 - 3/4
depth 2 "
Part number 119
$140 livermore performance.com

[GTeener]

Overhead mockup pictured below.

Aaron, 90 degree AN fittings are very tall and might interfere with the chassis. But acquiring male AN fittings and welding and extension pipe the makes a tighter 90 degree bend is possible.

Gwen, there's a lot more to figure out. Also, this is experimental. I like the idea, it makes sense to me. But it is unproven. Make sure you're comfortable with that.

2 Coolers @ $180 = $360 (shipping included in this price, not in Aaron's)
AN Lines (rubber) = $150
Thermostat = $100
AN Fittings = $200

That's $810 just in parts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

It's a proven solution with bigger coolers in the same places. Is the experimental part laying the cooler down instead of mounting it upright? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

What will you do it for? Once you perfect the design, others will benefit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

As I mentioned in our PM discussions, I firmly believe Trekkor's setup to be ideal for your needs. It may be a bit of overkill, but "overkill" is FAR preferable to "overcook". The exit openings could be shuttered as a "dial in" procedure to achieve optimum cooling under various circumstances. While I don't believe the cooler he has is necessarily the right size for you, smaller ones are available. His setup is clean, the thermostat is near the end of the lines so the oil benefits from heat transfer for the length of the run, whether or not the cooler is in the loop. You retain all but a small portion of your luggage capacity, and the system is as efficient as you're gonna find. Cutting of body panels is minimal, labor times are reduced, and you get what you need and then some. There's plenty of room for a thermostatically controlled fan should one be needed. If you use a trunk mounted cooler, it ain't gonna be anywhere close to as effective, and the small, behind the bumper coolers are gonna be an expensive exercise in futility, with the return on the dollar numbers being very low.

To recap. Cheap, effective, clean, pretty non-invasive, visually attractive, proven, and it can be tailored to your needs, now and in the future. Al Gore, noted climatic expert, says it's gonna be REALLY hot, real soon. Of course, you're gonna be under water, what with you being in the bay area and all ......................

If you want a REALLY EXPERIENCED opinion, call Otto. 310 399 3221 Trust me, you WILL get an opinion, LOL.

I'm outta here ................. The Cap'n

[GTeener]

As I mentioned in our PM discussions, I firmly believe Trekkor's setup to be ideal for your needs. It may be a bit of overkill, but "overkill" is FAR preferable to "overcook". The exit openings could be shuttered as a "dial in" procedure to achieve optimum cooling under various circumstances. While I don't believe the cooler he has is necessarily the right size for you, smaller ones are available. His setup is clean, the thermostat is near the end of the lines so the oil benefits from heat transfer for the length of the run, whether or not the cooler is in the loop. You retain all but a small portion of your luggage capacity, and the system is as efficient as you're gonna find. Cutting of body panels is minimal, labor times are reduced, and you get what you need and then some. There's plenty of room for a thermostatically controlled fan should one be needed. If you use a trunk mounted cooler, it ain't gonna be anywhere close to as effective, and the small, behind the bumper coolers are gonna be an expensive exercise in futility, with the return on the dollar numbers being very low.

To recap. Cheap, effective, clean, pretty non-invasive, visually attractive, proven, and it can be tailored to your needs, now and in the future. Al Gore, noted climatic expert, says it's gonna be REALLY hot, real soon. Of course, you're gonna be under water, what with you being in the bay area and all ......................

If you want a REALLY EXPERIENCED opinion, call Otto. 310 399 3221 Trust me, you WILL get an opinion, LOL.

I'm outta here ................. The Cap'n

If my spare tire fits in the trunk over the board I'm game for Trekkor's design. I still don't understand why the cooler is mounted against the exit holes and not the fresh air intake holes? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

If my spare tire fits in the trunk over the board I'm game for Trekkor's design. I still don't understand why the cooler is mounted against the exit holes and not the fresh air intake holes? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

nor do I LOL....

my spare tire fits LOL
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/blog-219-1150237429.jpg)

[McMark]

It's a proven solution with bigger coolers in the same places. Is the experimental part laying the cooler down instead of mounting it upright? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

What will you do it for? Once you perfect the design, others will benefit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

The cooler isn't laid down. It's upright and air flows straight through it. But the coolers are quite small. I am cautious with any new idea. I think it sounds good enough to try it, that's saying something. But there is a small possibility that at the end of the day it won't give enough cooling. Any time you're breaking new ground, you're taking a risk. Something similar has been done and has worked, but that only proves the basis of the idea since we are talking about drastically changing the implementation. There is very little similar about the race car fog light coolers, and what we're talking about. Those have different motors, different coolers, different installations, and all of those things can completely change the effectiveness of the idea. If you're not comfortable with breaking new ground and accepting that risk, there are tons of proven effective methods that will suit your needs.

At my rates it would probably $500-$700 in labor fees.

[GTeener]

It's a proven solution with bigger coolers in the same places. Is the experimental part laying the cooler down instead of mounting it upright? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

What will you do it for? Once you perfect the design, others will benefit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

The cooler isn't laid down. It's upright and air flows straight through it. But the coolers are quite small. I am cautious with any new idea. I think it sounds good enough to try it, that's saying something. But there is a small possibility that at the end of the day it won't give enough cooling. Any time you're breaking new ground, you're taking a risk. Something similar has been done and has worked, but that only proves the basis of the idea since we are talking about drastically changing the implementation. There is very little similar about the race car fog light coolers, and what we're talking about. Those have different motors, different coolers, different installations, and all of those things can completely change the effectiveness of the idea. If you're not comfortable with breaking new ground and accepting that risk, there are tons of proven effective methods that will suit your needs.

At my rates it would probably $500-$700 in labor fees.

Right now I have no extra cooling. So my continuum of options (not in proper order) are...

The small front coolers (adequate) will presumable provide some quality cooling, better than an under the car with fan solution (worst) and allow my standardly mounted horizontal full-spare tire to fit where it is and my headlights to work as normal. But it is unproven with small coolers and working headlights.

Trekkors front cooler design works (very good) and preserves some trunk but possibly not enough for the full-spare (space saver is likely) but has a funny rear mounting location.

The more traditional GT-style front cooler (optimal) works the best but I will lose the full-spare tire (space saver fits) and much of the front trunk space and may in fact be too effective in cooling.

Since the small fog light coolers are unproven it is impossible to say that it is an excercise in futility...It was first suggested conceptually by Tony Heyer of Heyer Performance...

[xitspd]

My B&B without ducting in place.

Dan

[Aaron Cox]

The more traditional GT-style front cooler (optimal) works the best but I will lose the full-spare tire (space saver fits) and much of the front trunk space and may in fact be too effective in cooling.

thats why you leave the body holes up front, and can put the plugs back in if TOO cool, and also, that is what the external thermostat helps to take care of

[GTeener]

What is lost other than labor cost in going the way of the 2 small fog light cooler route?

The lines and fittings are re-usable aren't they?

Most of the lines will still be located in the proper place going to the back of the car, right?

If the chassis doesn't get cut up, which is what I prefer, I can still go the way of the more traditional GT front coolers, can't I?

The two small coolers will cool more than what I've got, which is no cooler, right?

[Aaron Cox]

i like the attitude! try something new!

worst case, you weld in patches for what you cut out, and go GT style...

[Cap'n Krusty]

If my spare tire fits in the trunk over the board I'm game for Trekkor's design. I still don't understand why the cooler is mounted against the exit holes and not the fresh air intake holes? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
[/quote]
The front of the chamber, or the rear. Doesn't matter. The air goes in at the front, exits at the back, passing through the cooler. The top effectively makes the whole thing a duct. The Cap'n

[lapuwali]

Right now I have no extra cooling. So my continuum of options (not in proper order) are...

The small front coolers (adequate) will presumable provide some quality cooling, better than an under the car with fan solution (worst) and allow my standardly mounted horizontal full-spare tire to fit where it is and my headlights to work as normal. But it is unproven with small coolers and working headlights.

Trekkors front cooler design works (very good) and preserves some trunk but possibly not enough for the full-spare (space saver is likely) but has a funny rear mounting location.

The more traditional GT-style front cooler (optimal) works the best but I will lose the full-spare tire (space saver fits) and much of the front trunk space and may in fact be too effective in cooling.

Since the small fog light coolers are unproven it is impossible to say that it is an excercise in futility...It was first suggested conceptually by Tony Heyer of Heyer Performance...

Actually, the under the rear trunk mounted cooler IS still an option, no matter what Aaron says. You have no external cooler now, and your oil temps are, MOST OF THE TIME, just fine. You only need extra cooling capacity under duress. Aaron has absolutely no data on how much cooling a 2.2S really needs under track conditions at Thunderhill in August, so he's talking out his ass when he says the under trunk option isn't good enough. He has no way of knowing, he's just guessing.

Rich Johnson lives in Texas. It's a LOT hotter in Texas in the summer than it is in the Bay Area at any time of year. Rich Johnson has a warmed over 3.0, which generates more power (and thus heat) than a 2.2S does. The under trunk option works for him. It MIGHT work for you (there's no telling without trying it). It won't touch your front trunk at all. It's substantially easier to fabricate than the under the headlight approach. It's PROVEN to be adequate on a more powerful engine in hotter ambient temps.

[McMark]

If for some unforseen reason the small cooler setup does not work well enough, you will be left with the following body metal holes: 1.) a hole behind the fog light grills 2.) a hole in front of the wheel (air exit) 3.) an access hole cut in the body brace in the front trunk (the piece with two big holes in it). All three of those areas can easily be recreated with replacement stock metal. The oil coolers could be sold on eBay, and the oil lines and fitting could be reused.

[GTeener]

[quote name='Cap'n Krusty' date='Jul 14 2006, 04:57 PM' post='728313']
If my spare tire fits in the trunk over the board I'm game for Trekkor's design. I still don't understand why the cooler is mounted against the exit holes and not the fresh air intake holes? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
[/quote]
The front of the chamber, or the rear. Doesn't matter. The air goes in at the front, exits at the back, passing through the cooler. The top effectively makes the whole thing a duct. The Cap'n
[/quote]

Gotcha. Thanks for 'splaining me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'll see if the tire fits in the trunk on top of my board this weekend.

I somehow doubt it though. It's a 205/50/15 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)