 Bad valve lifter, which one is bad? |
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| Twystd1 |
 Aug 22 2006, 10:13 PM
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#21
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You don't want to know... really.....  Group: Members Posts: 2,515 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Newport Beach, California Member No.: 2,743  |
Dude...
U R so carnal... My face hurt wid jew comment....... Brought tears to my eye holes... Badassdog........... U B da manholio!...... (kinda like brad but more) Twystd1 |
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| Aaron Cox |
Aug 22 2006, 10:16 PM
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#22
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
carnal? isnt that what they put in my savage burrito on friday? carnal asada? LOL or was that carnalitas?
man... keep the comments to a level where i dont have to google the friggin punchlines! rofl.... ellyut fell asleep apparently.....(9:15 pm.... past his bed time...) |
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| Twystd1 |
Aug 22 2006, 10:22 PM
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#23
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You don't want to know... really..... Group: Members Posts: 2,515 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Newport Beach, California Member No.: 2,743 |
Yo yo yo.....
Da Eelyut ain't in da bed yet.... he B smacking his gums over hiss lady and stuff... (sheep, etc.) Dis lifter thang seem to B da major prob facing da planet now days... And da ceramic being made into vests and stuff.. I say gimme da lifters and make em out a crack or somethin.... Cause maybey we smoke em if day break.... (I love this cold medicine by the way) Twystd1 |
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| Jake Raby |
Aug 23 2006, 05:02 AM
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#24
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Aug 22 2006, 06:47 PM)  QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Aug 22 2006, 06:37 PM) Seen it happen before, had it happen before an engine even fired up while adjusting valves on the bench. Where did you source the lifters? The engine was built by FAT Performance in Orange California. This is the third time this has happened. The first time, I had just installed the engine and 20 miles later the engine was back out of the car with lifter problems. I think they failed while still on the dyno. FAT has made good on everything and have been very supportive. The second time the No. 2 exhaust lifter collapsed and now the No.4. I hope the ceramic lifters cure this problem, as the thing runs great and produces good hp. I'm not sure where they got the lifters. I'll find out. Cheers, Elliot One day people will learn that an extra 50 bucks spent on components that are properly developed is way cheaper than broken parts. Look familiar? (IMG:http://www.lnengineering.com/shatteredliftercup2.jpg) (IMG:http://www.lnengineering.com/shatteredliftercup1.jpg) The MFR of those lifters tole ME that I had assembled an engine wrong to have these issues, what he could not get through his thick skull was the fact that one failure occured while the engine was being turned over- BY HAND before it EVER RAN! Now, take your old lifters and beat them upside down on a solid surface like concrete- you'll note that all the pushrod cups move or fall out! This is a manufacturing error that won't be admiitted to. When you don't want this crap to happen, you have an option. |
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| bd1308 |
Aug 23 2006, 07:21 AM
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#25
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Sir Post-a-lot Group: Members Posts: 8,020 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Louisville,KY Member No.: 3,501 |
so you have lifters that withstand being beaten upside down on concrete?
I dont get it :confuzzled: |
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| Bartlett 914 |
Aug 23 2006, 09:17 AM
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#26
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,218 Joined: 30-August 05 From: South Elgin IL Member No.: 4,707 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(bd1308 @ Aug 23 2006, 05:21 AM) so you have lifters that withstand being beaten upside down on concrete? I dont get it :confuzzled: The key word I believe is "OLD" lifters. Probably not a good idea with new ones. Mark |
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| Jake Raby |
Aug 23 2006, 09:36 AM
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#27
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
The pushrod cups should NEVER MOVE in the body of the lifter. they are a press fit..
These problematic lifters have improper machine work that fits the pushrod cup too loosely in the lifter body. The reciprocation really works on the cup that has started to float and then it breaks... When I was doing my lifter R&D I bought 20 sets of these lifters and threw away over 75% of them due to them not passing this simple test. The others got a whole bunch of different procedures done to them from regrinding to DLC coating, nitriding and parkerizing... The answer is no, my pushrod cups don't explode. If you can move one with a sledge hammer you are lucky. |
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| Bleyseng |
Aug 23 2006, 09:37 AM
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#28
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,036 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
From the posted pic (Elliotts) I would say the lifter on the left is a stock one and the one on the right is a racing one. The larger hole is for higher oil flow.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) You sure the cam is ok, Elliott? I would break the motor down |
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| Jake Raby |
Aug 23 2006, 10:23 AM
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#29
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
the more I look at the pic of the one that didn't fail the more it looks like the ones that i saw that were about to fail..
Elliott, take an old pushrod or punch and give the pushrod cup a few whacks and see what it does... Do it right in the center, neat the oil passage. |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Aug 23 2006, 10:47 AM
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#30
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Aug 22 2006, 08:46 PM) ROFL- you know it! Aiiite, Da big EllYUT here wif my mota! this flat hulk aint like no toyota! swappin lifters, and pushrods out.... WTF did i do? give A-ron a shout.... so again, get out of the hammock, and play with your ceramic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) Remember, Toyota currently produces a pushrod motor, so it's not so far off ............. Cast arn pushrod dinosaur V8, matter of fact, with a carburetor. |
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| Aaron Cox |
Aug 23 2006, 10:49 AM
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#31
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
i hear it is in one of dem roundy round left hand turnin carrs
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| Elliot_Cannon |
Aug 23 2006, 01:22 PM
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#32
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,922 Joined: 26-March 03 From: Orange County Ca Member No.: 480 Region Association: None |
I have been pretty careful installing the new lifters. The ceramic lifters were just a bit higher than the steel ones and I added shims to make up the difference. I checked the push rod and couldn't find any problems. I will replace a leaky flywheel seal and put everything back together in the next few days. I think I'll try Jakes test on a few of the old lifters. I agree that this was some kind of manufacturing problem and it's too bad cause I think I'm not the only one with this issue.
Cheers, (and thanks for all the advise) Elliot PS The cam appears to be ok. The wear patterns look ok and except for the noisy valve the engine ran great. |
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| Bleyseng |
Aug 23 2006, 01:49 PM
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#33
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,036 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
PS The cam appears to be ok. The wear patterns look ok and except for the noisy valve the engine ran great. [/quote] "Appears" is the keyword and I would tear is down and check it out. I have never had much luck lookin in thru the side of the motor other than " yup, cam is still there" visual check. Who is the manuf. of the cam? |
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| Twystd1 |
Aug 24 2006, 02:37 AM
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#34
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You don't want to know... really..... Group: Members Posts: 2,515 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Newport Beach, California Member No.: 2,743 |
Last year I spoke to Elliot about this issue.
I agree that it is difficult to eye ball a cam when it's in the engine. Dam near impossible to tell if it's GOOD. IN FACT...... Just tore a 2.0 apart on the bench last week. Looking through the pushrod hole with good sunlight and the engine on a table sitting outside.... The cam looked passable. Once I opened up the case and took it out. I could PLAINLY SEE THE CAM WAS SERIOUSLY HOSED..!!!!!!!! Therefore... if I had to inspect another cam with the engine all together. I would use a bore scope and REALLY look at it closely. (magnification rules) By the way...When Elyut's engine is running good... it is very sweet indeed. Clayton |
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