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> Vacuum Lines all New: Running Rich, replaced all hoses so engine is very tight
mikerose
post Sep 14 2006, 02:19 PM
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It's been a few years, but I test drove the engine in Mike Mueller's car and don't remember and throttle lag or smoke. Like every assumption.. I'll go through all my hose routing from scratch... can't hurt.

Thanks for advice.
[/quote]


Brain,
I bet That engine came out of my first 914. I let MikeM use it and one day he sold it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
I have all the smog junk at home. Yah he paid me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)


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Brian Mifsud
post Sep 19 2006, 09:37 PM
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I tested the Head Temperature Sensor this evening in my '76 2.0. P/N is 0 280 130 012. My measurements were different than the ones posted by Brad Anders.

Brad's Measurements:

32 def F 61 deg F 210 def F
N/A 2.85K ohms 199.3 ohms


Mine:

32 def F 61 deg F 210 def F
549kohms 1.85K ohms 327 ohms


It seems to be behaving "rationally", i.e. no short, or open condition, but the rich mixture is present. I'm thinking the wiring harness is the next suspect unless somebody thinks these numbers are too far off.

What do you think?
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Dave_Darling
post Sep 19 2006, 10:01 PM
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Sounds like the TS2 is "close enough" (or better), so keep looking for the source of your rich running. How's the fuel pressure again?

--DD
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Brian Mifsud
post Sep 19 2006, 10:05 PM
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Will rig up pressure measurement tomorrow and check it out.
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Brian Mifsud
post Sep 20 2006, 08:30 PM
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I'm back..... Holy CR%P!!!!

I rigged up a 60 PSI gauge to check fuel pressure as the next item in the "checklist"...

I fired her up and went over and looked at the gauge... it wasn't making sense....
somehow, the needle had gotten itself on the wrong side of the "Zero" post... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

I killed the engine and had one horrible thought.... I backed off the hose clamp sealing the gauge to the fuel pressure line.. and sure enough.. the needle started moving away from the "Zero" post.... the damn thing had gone all the way around the clock, and past 60PSI (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)


yes, I've been (IMG:style_emoticons/default/owned.gif) by either my installation of fuel lines backwards.. (most likely).. or a pinched return hose in the tank area....

Silly Silly me....

Kind of explains why my cold start valve was "leaking" and the car was so freeking stinky....

Now to sort out the plumbing problem..

More later... (wish I had a camera to show that needle pegged, it was almost funny!!)
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TravisNeff
post Sep 20 2006, 08:40 PM
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Right on! progress.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Brian Mifsud
post Sep 20 2006, 08:43 PM
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Okay... quicky.... as the fuel lines come out of the "hell hole", they are arranged so one is forward of the other. Which is the high pressure side and which is the return? (Assuming I didn't switch them at the tank and left them in the "stock" connections")
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TravisNeff
post Sep 20 2006, 09:10 PM
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I can't recall which is which. With your 76 your hoses are the same size (7), rather than the early cars with 7/9 hoses. What you can do is remove your splash pan up front (under the steering rack) and reach in the access hold and feel which lines are which coming out of the tank to the tunnel.

Plus, my bet is on a kink in the return line - and that is where the kink would be (right under the tank).


QUOTE(Brian Mifsud @ Sep 20 2006, 07:43 PM) *

Okay... quicky.... as the fuel lines come out of the "hell hole", they are arranged so one is forward of the other. Which is the high pressure side and which is the return? (Assuming I didn't switch them at the tank and left them in the "stock" connections")
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Dave_Darling
post Sep 20 2006, 09:14 PM
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Check the diagrams on our site. Supposedly the front one is the supply, the rear one return.

Then again, you could just look at which one your pump connects to up front, then see which line that is at the rear.

Or you could just swap them and see what happens to the pressure.... I don't think it'll get that much over 60 PSI, so you won't be any worse off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

--DD
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Brian Mifsud
post Sep 20 2006, 09:22 PM
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Hi Dave,

I swapped them and pressure dropped to almost nothing... engine ran anyhow, just not happy.


Travis

This points to fuel pressure regulator not regulating... or a big kink in the return line.. guess I'm pulling the tank tomorrow (out of daylight).

I did build a lot of slack into the supply and return side at the tank...

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bd1308
post Sep 20 2006, 09:33 PM
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CHANGE YOUR OIL

your oil probably has gas in it from having the injectors fight against 80+ PSI of fuel--they'll leak quite a bit at that rate.
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Brian Mifsud
post Sep 20 2006, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE(bd1308 @ Sep 20 2006, 08:33 PM) *

CHANGE YOUR OIL

your oil probably has gas in it from having the injectors fight against 80+ PSI of fuel--they'll leak quite a bit at that rate.



That stands to reason... before I disconnected the cold start valve, fuel had accumulated to almost 1/8" in depth in side the intake manifold.

Lots to do tomorrow....
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pbanders
post Sep 21 2006, 10:16 AM
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QUOTE(Brian Mifsud @ Sep 20 2006, 07:30 PM) *

I killed the engine and had one horrible thought.... I backed off the hose clamp sealing the gauge to the fuel pressure line.. and sure enough.. the needle started moving away from the "Zero" post.... the damn thing had gone all the way around the clock, and past 60PSI


#3 on my list of reasons for a rich mixture.

If you've been running it this way, as others have said, your oil is full of gas. You also need to check that your CSV is still functioning properly, and verify that your injectors aren't now leaking.

I had exactly the same problem (due to a clogged return port on my tank) when I converted from carbs to stock FI in 1985.
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Bleyseng
post Sep 21 2006, 10:48 AM
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Hey, me too! Clogged return line when I switched back to FI from carbs in 1996.
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Brian Mifsud
post Sep 21 2006, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE(pbanders @ Sep 21 2006, 09:16 AM) *

#3 on my list of reasons for a rich mixture.

If you've been running it this way, as others have said, your oil is full of gas. You also need to check that your CSV is still functioning properly, and verify that your injectors aren't now leaking.

I had exactly the same problem (due to a clogged return port on my tank) when I converted from carbs to stock FI in 1985.


Engine hasn't had more than 1/2 hour running time since put back in car. Will check oil this evening. Originally, my cold start valve was leaking like mad since the intake plenum was full of gas. I disconnected it and plugged the feed line.

As far as injectors leaking, do you feel that this huge overpressure can damage them? I will pull them tonight and fire up the pump, once I've rooted out (hopefully) the "kinked" return line, and then verified that I'm regulated back down to 30~PSI.

BTW, any benefit to running a little on the high side, say 35PSI? (while I'm in there tweaking it...)


Continuing to be the Poster Boy for Pauls Fuel Injection Troubleshooting site....

thanks
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Bleyseng
post Sep 21 2006, 12:01 PM
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NO
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bd1308
post Sep 21 2006, 01:53 PM
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DJET likes low fuel pressure.

One could even use the 50PSI line, since djet likes ~32PSI of fuel pressure or so.
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Dave_Darling
post Sep 21 2006, 02:41 PM
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That's 29 PSI, not 32.

Adding fuel pressure will make it run richer across the board. Not sure if it's a linear addition, or what, but it will run richer. (At least, until the injectors stop atomizing the fuel correctly.) If that's what you want....

Too much fuel pressure can, sometimes, make the injectors leak even after the pressure is normal. I'd check 'em when you get the fuel pressure back to normal again. Just take 'em out of the intake and see if they leak when you have the fuel pump running. Be ready for the mess if they do leak, though. A face shield and a fire extinguisher might be good ideas...

--DD
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bd1308
post Sep 21 2006, 02:59 PM
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hence the ~ Dave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Brian Mifsud
post Sep 26 2006, 10:06 PM
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While digging below the fuel tank, I found a line which MAY have been pinched between rear of tank and bulkhead. I was able to wrestle it out without moving the tank.

After firing up engine, fuel pressure was back to being pegged (again, way past the gauge's max reading).

I shut down, and got my wrenches to try adjusting the fuel pressure regulator. I went back to run the fuel pump, turned the key and got NOTHING>>>>

No lights, no starter nothing.....

moments before, everything was fine electrically.

I took the fuel pump out of it's hole and it lying in the front trunk, wires tight, all connected.

I've never had ANY electrical problems before. Do the ignition switches just instantaneously go bad? No smoke "leaking" out of wires anywhere...

Solving one problem causes another.. gotta love this stuff...
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