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> Olav, can you stop?!, New Calipers
MJHanna
post Oct 30 2003, 01:44 PM
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Also all “S” struts were 3.5 inch from 68-74
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Brad Roberts
post Oct 30 2003, 01:44 PM
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How about what I said "all cars with Koni's and aluminum calipers" ??

The only struts I have found with 3.5 inch on early cars have always been Koni's (yes or no) with aluminum calipers.

Anyone know if they used another strut with 3.5 prior to SC ?


B
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JWest
post Oct 30 2003, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Oct 30 2003, 11:44 AM)
Anyone know if they used another strut with 3.5 prior to SC ?


B

I think Rich (ArtechnikA) just said he had a set of early Sporto struts that were Boge and 3.5".

Edit: it was on the first page here Sporto and aluminum calipers
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Brad Roberts
post Oct 30 2003, 01:50 PM
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Humm..

Ok. What about the crappy hydro pneumatic struts ?? Where they 3.5 ??


B
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J P Stein
post Oct 30 2003, 01:54 PM
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I'm trying to figure out what is going on here with all this brake "upgrade" stuff.

I can see going to the vented rotors....also to Carrera
rotors...more heat sink.
Nowhere do I see any reference to the rear brakes to balance things out.
I don't see anything on upgrading the master cylinder to deal with 4 pot calipers.

I must be missing something.......
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JWest
post Oct 30 2003, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Oct 30 2003, 11:50 AM)
Humm..

Ok. What about the crappy hydro pneumatic struts ?? Where they 3.5 ??


B

Yep, I've got a friend in Grand Prarie who pulled a set of aluminum calipers and hydo struts out of a '69 or '70 911E at a salvage yard down here. At first he thought it was a 911S because of the brakes.

He didn't believe me when I told him there were no springs or torsion bars!
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davep
post Oct 30 2003, 01:56 PM
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3.5" on all "S" and "A" calipers thus"S" struts plus hydropneumatic struts. Also early turbo 930 used "S" calipers

DaveP
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Brad Roberts
post Oct 30 2003, 01:56 PM
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He has factory 6 calipers in the rear with a tee and 19mm MC.

You viewed the other post where we rebuilt the 9146 calipers and showed the BIG difference in piston size.

This combo ROCKS on 9146's. The 3.0 that we beat to death was upgraded over a year and a half ago. It performs flawlessly with this exact setup.


The car stops flat and straight from 125-130 MPH with both feet on the brake pedal.


B

This post has been edited by Brad Roberts: Oct 30 2003, 02:05 PM
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Jeroen
post Oct 30 2003, 04:34 PM
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Did you weld up the old mounting holes in the caliper before machining new ones, or did you just open up the existing holes?

cheers,

Jeroen
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vortrex
post Oct 30 2003, 04:45 PM
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brad,

how is the other hole machined also? was it just enlarged on center? it's not offset at all like the other one, or my memory is shot.

jeroen,

no, the holes are not closed up. the most noticeable (only?) hole that is machined is more oblong from the existing hole.
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TimT
post Oct 30 2003, 05:02 PM
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Brad what is the size of the 914/6 rear caliper piston?

Im thinking of installing the 944t front just figuring out what the rears should be for balance. (I currently have '87 carrera calipers all around)

For a real good write up on brakes do a search on Pelican for Bill Verburg, he has page with all sorts of brake info
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Jeroen
post Oct 30 2003, 05:05 PM
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Hey Vortex,

Thanks for answering... I have the very same setup on my '87 carrera and the holes were just oblonged on those too.
I was just wondering if this would be strong enough (although I have no problems with them)

cheers,

Jeroen
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Jeroen
post Oct 30 2003, 05:09 PM
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Here's the link to Bill Verburg's brakes page:
http://home.nycap.rr.com/wmv/generalbrmd.htm

cheers,

Jeroen
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TimT
post Oct 30 2003, 05:56 PM
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Back the truck up!!

arent the 944 T calipers radial mount? meaning you need an adapter of some sort to mount them on the struts ears?
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Mueller
post Oct 30 2003, 05:58 PM
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Tim,

No, they are not.........

Same caliper as 964 cars, not until the 993 did they change to the new mounting design
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si2t3m
post Oct 30 2003, 06:58 PM
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One of my winter projects is to gather the parts to upgrade the fronts to 944T. I currently have SC calipers and rotors on the car. Rotors are near the limit.

I had a nasty shimmy from the front at my last DE at Tremblant after the brakes got warm. 2 drivers on the car. I'd jump in my 914 at staging just after my father got off the track with it. After a couple of laps, i could feel a shimmy in the front while braking hard. At the last session, My father skipped his turn. Same braking only this time shimmy was gone.

I do want to go to thicker rotors. While i'm at it, why not go with 944T calipers.

I remember reading on the 911 PP board that the 944T are not a recommended. Dunno why... Sometimes too much information is like not enough??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Marc-André
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Jeroen
post Oct 30 2003, 07:20 PM
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The 944T calipers are "not recommended" because it's a caliper only upgrade (on a 3.2 carrera that is) so the heatsink properties of the rotor are not increased, so "in theory" you would overheat the rotors...
The same goes for the Boxster calipers (which also use a carrera 3.2 rotor)
"Their" thinking is that you need to upgrade calipers AND rotors
This is true up to a certain point...

On the other hand, I have this setup on my '87 911 3.2 and it works like a charm
I've ran them on track extensively without fading and they did not warp the rotors
And this is on a car that weighs in at close to 2600#

So for a much lighter car like a 914 there shouldn't be any trouble at all

cheers,

Jeroen
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914Timo
post Oct 31 2003, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE
I don't see anything on upgrading the master cylinder to deal with 4 pot calipers.

I must be missing something.......


Me too.....

Do you use original master cylinder or 23 mm MB one ??
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Brad Roberts
post Oct 31 2003, 01:32 AM
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19mm.

If you go to the 23mm it will take both feet on the pedal to stop the car at a intersection from 10MPH. I personally want the pedal to move a little bit when I stand on the binders (heel/toe)

I think if you went with Big reds all the way around.. you would need a 23mm MC.

What we dont talk about: ALL late model Porsches use a vacuum booster to help with the braking. We dont have this in a 914...so installing a big MC will leave you with a very firm pedal and require a ton of force on it to make the car stop from normal speeds.


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914Timo
post Oct 31 2003, 02:15 AM
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Piston diameters of 944T/951 caliupers are 2 x 40 mm + 2 x 36 mm. The piston area of one caliper is 4550 mm2. The piston diameter of the original SC caliper is 48 mm and the piston area of one caliper is 3620 mm2. That means, that when you press your SC caliper pistons out 1 mm, the pistons come out from 944T/951 caliper only 0.8 mm.

But, if we study the caliper piston area / master cylinder piston area, we will see that

SC caliper piston area / 19 MC => 2 x 3620 mm2 / 280 mm2 = about 25,5

944T/951 piston area / 23 MC => 2 x 4550 mm2 / 380 mm2 = about 26,7

So, the pedal will be firmer with 23mm MC than it used to be with 19 MC and original calipers.

If you want the same ratio, you should use 22 mm MC.

I am here only speculating, not saying anything.
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