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[Wild 6]

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[Allan]

Sorry about the car. Glad everyone's okay...

[VegasRacer]

John,
I hate to say this, but I think my passenger enjoyed the ride - including the wreck at the end. Girls that love excitement, what can you say.

What can I say . . . . . I prolly would have enjoyed it to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Talk about a Wild Ride in the Wild 6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

Sorry 'bout the car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[JPB]

Happy noone got hurt and hopefully this event will cover you for the next few years incident free as in averages and all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[shaggy]

which of the many m3's did you get hit by?

was it the "ravensport" one?

glad your ok.
its only metal.

when you get tapped on the track does the other driver pay anything typically?

-jim

[Mueller]

you must be understating "MAD" to have been thrown out

The M3 was new and it did put a hurt on his front bumber cover and headlight. He pulled it up to a wall after the incident so we couldn't see it. I should of remained calm, but didn't. The offender has a poor driving history - passing under yellows, etc. I never thought in a million years that he would run into me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) I had an official "Instructors" shirt on while I was explaining to him my opinion on the accident. It appeared to all the bystanders that a club official was about ready to....

total bummer....I wonder if the M3 owner will try to pass the damages onto his insurance....

[anthony]

So what is the protocol in DE when something like this happens. To me it seems that there is clear fault and the other driver should be writing you a check for the repairs.

[mudfoot76]

when you get tapped on the track does the other driver pay anything typically?

-jim

Most organizations make you sign a waiver before any track action that basically says anything that happens to your car is your problem and not anyone else's, regardless of who may be to blame.

There is something called the 13/13 rule. In a nutshell - if you are involved in an on track incident, and it is your first time, you go on probation for 13 months. If you are involved in a second incident during that probation period, you are then banned for 13 months.

This is intended to keep everyone in check, and hopefully prevent the yahoos from coming out thinking it is NASCAR. Rubbing certainly is _not_ racing at club events.

[nebreitling]

So what is the protocol in DE when something like this happens. To me it seems that there is clear fault and the other driver should be writing you a check for the repairs.

negative. one assumes the risk when one puts it on the track. track insurance is obtainable, and rather pricey. regardless, contact is a foreseeable risk.

no DE-type events that i've heard of have a 13/13 rule -- given the number of organizations that run these types of events, it would be almost useless anyway.

i'm SUPER glad that no one was hurt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) fix it and get back out there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

[anthony]

negative. one assumes the risk when one puts it on the track.

I certainly understand the risk which is why I haven't tracked either of my cars yet.

I still think a case could be made against a negligent driver. It's not racing. There are rules in DE that are supposed to be followed. If someone is grossly negligent out on a track (not saying that is the case here) I think a case could be made in court regardless of what was signed.

[grantsfo]

So what is the protocol in DE when something like this happens. To me it seems that there is clear fault and the other driver should be writing you a check for the repairs.

negative. one assumes the risk when one puts it on the track. track insurance is obtainable, and rather pricey. regardless, contact is a foreseeable risk.

no DE-type events that i've heard of have a 13/13 rule -- given the number of organizations that run these types of events, it would be almost useless anyway.

i'm SUPER glad that no one was hurt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) fix it and get back out there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

Yep. If somone hits me I'd be mildly pissed off, but I certainly wouldnt expect them to pay for anything. I would expect just as much risk in a DE event where skills vary so greatly. How can you hold somone accountable if they are just learning limits of their car etc?

Glad everyone was ok!

[Trekkor]

Best case scenario is that the errant driver steps up and offers to help out with the expenses.

there is risk tracking a car, plain and simple.
The "rules of the road", "right of way", and "at fault" do not apply here...


KT

[gregrobbins]

Hi Jason,
The flair and bumper took the worst of it. Too bad the flair is four different paint colors. Anyone know a good bodyman that moonlights?

Sharyl Toon. He just painted my Bumble Bee, also did Jack Amen's car and Bruce Martz's 914. He is in Peoria and knows his stuff. Call me if you need a phone number.

[nebreitling]

negative. one assumes the risk when one puts it on the track.

I certainly understand the risk which is why I haven't tracked either of my cars yet.

I still think a case could be made against a negligent driver. It's not racing. There are rules in DE that are supposed to be followed. If someone is grossly negligent out on a track (not saying that is the case here) I think a case could be made in court regardless of what was signed.

if someone is grossly neglegent (like driving the wrong direction on the track or speeding through the paddock), then you may, indeed, have a case. still, the 'rules' aren't actually that clearly defined.

[Brad Roberts]

Dave Vodden (track manager of Thunderhill) wrecked a 1 year old 996GT3Cup car coming out of turn 13 and put into the wall. The passenger in the car was the owner.. HE ATE THE CAR. Dave was in the hospital with a collasped lung.

I have yet to see a racer offer up to pay for a mistake.

Last years 25hr Thill race we watched a small piece of shit BMW move over on a fully race prepared/freshly built 964RSA. Overbeek was driving and ran it up one of the hills and flipped several times. The BMW itself wasnt worth the value of the wheels and tires on the RSA. That driver never apologized. NASA's requirements for you to run the event are VERY steep. You dont just walk up and run... but there are still stupid people who meet the requirements everywhere..everytime.



B

[mudfoot76]

if someone is grossly neglegent (like driving the wrong direction on the track or speeding through the paddock), then you may, indeed, have a case. still, the 'rules' aren't actually that clearly defined.

The recent fatalities at DE events (the infamous Ferrari club / Carrera GT crash comes to mind) only serve to reinforce the inherent risks. There will be yahoos that slip through the filters. As Trek said, at the track, rules of the road do not apply. Unless you buy special insurance, you are not covered for vehicle damage. Everyone knows this. I do get a little nervous each time I go out, but I have accepted that it is risky to do this. However I personally feel it is safer than running the gauntlet on the interstate everyday to get to work. At least at the track, I know these people properly maintain their vehicles (and I trust our technical inspection process). That Ferrari club incident was tragic, but all those people involved knew their risks. If someone is truly afraid that something bad might happen, my advice to them is to stay home.

I've had this conversation with a few people in my short time as a DE addict. Yes, I know it is dangerous. Yes, I know my car could get destroyed. Yes, I know that in that event, my insurance won't give me one cent for the vehicle and if I damage the facility (armco, kerbing, etc) I have to pay for that repair out of my pocket. I do everything in my power to make sure my vehicle is safely prepared and that I am conducting myself in as safe a manner as possible. Yes, sometimes sh** happens, but that is b/c you can't control everything. It sucks about Wild6's car, but it happened at the track (on track), and shouldn't be treated any differently than if the car was struck by lightning. We are just glad that no person was injured (though I certainly sympathise with Wild6, and I would probably have gone a little bezerk too because I know how expensive repairs will be)

Each time one of these accidents happen, there is a flurry of talk over fault, blame, and who should get sued. That doesn't benefit anyone.

[jeff]

I guess this is a bad time to ask about posting my bmw/track car project? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I believe in the case of rear-ending you the bmw driver should pay!!If I rear-ended you and you approarced my angry, I'd strip, wrap my arms and legs around you and hand you my wallet!I own 3 bmws including a m3 and a (non-running 914 of course) and I lurk here more than any of the bmw sites.Glad it looks like a easy fix!

[pbanders]

I used to take my 914 and M3 to PCA and BMWCCA DE events here in Phoenix. I even did a few NASA events. Not any more. What changed my mind was the first time I went out in another guy's race car. He had a full roll cage, a fuel cell, integral fire extinguishing, a full racing bucket seat, full Nomex suit, five-point harness, and other safety equipment. In my 914 and M3, I had - a standard street seat belt, a helmet, street clothes, and a simple bottle fire extinguisher. And while the race car was faster than my street cars, they were still fast enough that the lack of safety equipment compared to the race car was still a big issue.

I decided then that the only way I'd be getting back on the track was in a race car, properly suited up - if ever.

BTW, I was at a BMWCCA event several years ago at Firebird, driving my 914. I was following a prepped E36 M3, driven by the wife of the chief driving instructor, her husband in the passenger seat. My passenger was a friend of mine who was an instructor. The 914 was much slower on the straight, but I easily caught up to her in the tight infield and was clearly faster on a lap time basis. I made this clear by approaching, but not riding her bumper. Rule is that if you see this going on (and it did, lap after lap), the front car is to wave you by on the straight. I realized she wasn't going to, ever, so I settled in behind at a safe distance. I guess this was too much pressure for her, as she eventually clipped the berm going into turn 11, and stuffed the M3 into the wall approaching turn 12, pretty much totalling it, about 30 feet in front of me. Luckily, nobody was injured - but yes, major accidents do happen at DE events, even highly-regulated ones like the BMWCCA runs. I also saw a guy total his Acura NSX at PIR at a NASA event in a much higher-speed incident.

[Wild 6]

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[MoveQik]

Now for the rest of the story...

Club Racing Arizona has asked the M3 driver to pay for my car or he will not be welcome back to any more track events. Evidently he has agreed to pay, but could change his mind once he sees the estimate. I did not ask for this - the club officials did it on their own.

Greg, do you have Sharyl's number and address?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) That is great! My guess is however that you won't ever see him at the track again....