Richie Ginther's 914 race cars, where are they?, Anyone know? Options

[DM_2000]

EFR almost lapped the whole field in the rain at the 1972 ARRC but was DQ'd due to non-compliant wheel track.

So, there were six 914-6s from 1970, and at least two 914-4s from 1972.

I've yet to find SCCA Prod regs from the 1970s (oldest copy I have is 1995) so I don't know what mods were allowed in Production back then. Which is why I'm really curious why EFR's #30 was sporting 5-bolt wheels.

What if one of the -6 cars were converted to a -4? This would explain the wheels.

Do we know if the raced in 72 car was running 14 or 15 wheels? 14 wheels did come on early 911 and perhaps using 14 helped the project.

[GregAmy]

Found a copy of the 1972 SCCA Prod regs...no allowance for 5-bolt stuff.

"Curiousier and curiouser"...wouldn't it be ironic if the car was tossed from a National Championship for 1/2" track difference when all someone had to do was look at the bolt pattern...?

[DM_2000]

Ok so you guys are asking about the old Ginther cars. Since I had one I knew a fair amount about the cars back in the day.

In the Nelsons pic, did the 9 car run 14" front and 15" rear wheels? What about the width?

[rstover]

I bought a new porsche in Oct. of 1983 and I aways had It serviced by Bob Hindson's Shop. When I first started going there he had a white race car that he was racing in vintage races. He told me it was a 910 but I don't know if it wasn't a 917-10. I wasn't that knowlegable . It was a Can Am car for sure. I don't recall any markings on the car at all. There was a vintage race in Kansas City in July of 1984 or 1985 which he drove it in along with a handful of other Can Am cars and it is a memory that is vivid today. The Can Am cars were so incrediably fast and Bob's car was the quickest for sure. As he would come out of very slow left, definetly a first gear corner, and accellerate up the hill the tires wer still breaking lose going in to 3rd gear nd maybe forth and then they came back down the hill and the sound of the fast downshifting is like it happened this morning. Anyway bck on topic. Shortly after this the next time I was in for service he had sold this white car and was restoring a orange 914 . I didn't ask about it but He had in the special spot where the previous white car was. We did visit little bit about the car he sold. After he sold that car it's value increased about 4 fold in a little over a year. The orange car that he was working on I believe is this 42 car. I think this picture is a good candiate for garage art.

[JKW]

I believe that car is owned by Edith Arrowsmith in Phoenix.

[stownsen914]

Not to get too far off topic, but is there that much of an aero advantage to cutting off the windscreen? I've always wondered.

Konrad

If memory serves correctly, frontal area is reduced by 36% with windshield removed

Don't forget the weight advantage. You can drop approx. 50 lbs out of a 914 by getting rid of the roof, windshield, and frame.

[9146GUY]

Answering a couple of questions:
The cars had the early R 7x15 wheels with all the backspace to the back. Those wheels are very rare and expensive today. Since the cars were delivered with either 14 or 15 wheels you could run either one up to an inch wider than delivered. SCCA's GCR's (general competition rules) allowed that.
They also allowed windshields to be removed and replaced with a windscreen. BUT the windscreen had to start where the old windshield started and couldn't extend beyond the rear of what it was replacing. Hence the long windscreen that was on the cars. It came rearward to the point where the windshield met the top. Again per the GCR's. Not only that it looked cool.
SCCA racing back then was all about reading between the line of the GCR's. If you could do that you could gain an advantage.
As far as the removal of the windshield it does lower the weight and it does cut down on frontal area. I don't know how much but I can relate some noticeable results that occurred. The first 914 I ran at Daytona in 1976 lost about 5 MPH on the back straight when we put the headlights up for night driving. You needed all the light you could get then because none of the track was lit up like today. Also there was no chicane in the back straight so you lost a bunch of time on the banking. Then the rules got a bit more liberal and we could put headlights in the front spoiler behind lexan. See picture of lights at Daytona in 1979

[90quattrocoupe]

Alan Johnson's office is 5-6 blocks from me.

AJ-USA

I havent met him yet, but I would like to pick his brain and possibly have him "guest" speek on the site one evening.


B

Just little side not that has nothing to do with the race cars. I was south bound on the 405 just north of San Diego, on a fine day in my 914, in the mid 1980s. I spied a 914 parked near the center divider. Of course, I pulled over. It turned out to be Alan Johnson. I don't remember the reason for the breakdown. But I picked him up and gave him a lift to his shop. He was late and he was the only one with keys to the shop. Just something that happened.

Greg W.

[chfrank]

Found a copy of the 1972 SCCA Prod regs...no allowance for 5-bolt stuff.

"Curiousier and curiouser"...wouldn't it be ironic if the car was tossed from a National Championship for 1/2" track difference when all someone had to do was look at the bolt pattern...?

the Regulations did not limit the number of bolts or the PCD, the and rear rotors were standard 914-4 simply redrilled with the 911/94-66 5 Bolt PCD. Also interested is the fact that EFR used stock brake pads in the Garretson 914-4 when he drove it and the lasted multiple races, while Dwight Mitchell used the top Ferodo race pads and wasted them in one race weekend.

We have talked to EFR, Hoppen and Broughton about the DQ, it was a bummer since EFR already had celebrated the race win, and they could have run faster with the spacer removed as well.

[Maltese Falcon]

From my library ; Richie Ginther's L.A. shop pics, the tech in the pic is Harold Broughton. I don't have an address on this shop from yesteryear, but I will post up when I learn of it. Culver City is a possibility , one block of Jefferson Bl. had the locations of Dick Guldstrand Racing, Traco Engineering, Ed Iskenderian Cams (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Marty

[Maltese Falcon]

...another Ginther's shop

[Maltese Falcon]

...Ginther's shop

[Maltese Falcon]

...Last one

[rgalla9146]

Great thread !
More please

[rsdiaz]

Hi my name is Bob from Santa Barbara Ca I worked at Schneider Autohaus for over 20 then the dealer for 10 year I am new to 914 world I am Happy to say the #30 914-4 is still alive but it is not the same as when it raced I bought it from Jim at Schneider some 30 years ago who got it from Rod Harrison who bought it from Dwight. Rod raced IMSA way back then and bought a factory 914-6 to campaign he needed a back up car and converted the #30 car to look like his factory 914-6gt. I raced it in POC for over 15 years first with a 2.0 now 2.7 back then no one really knew what a Richie Gunther car was or cared the good new was I never got in any big accidents. How the car is now the body is 914 Sheridan 2.7 roll cage is like a 914-6 10in wheels 5 lug side shift transmission fiberglass front and rear hood doors bumpers fenders . My last race was at Laguna Seca where I hit a cone when the car looked like a 914-gt after that I changed the body to Sheridan and never painted it .I have been a Porsche mechanic all my life and was hoping to one day bring the car back to its glory at this time the car sits in front of my house and is turn key ready to race I will post picture when I get a chance cheers Bob

[DRPHIL914]

Hi my name is Bob from Santa Barbara Ca I worked at Schneider Autohaus for over 20 then the dealer for 10 year I am new to 914 world I am Happy to say the #30 914-4 is still alive but it is not the same as when it raced I bought it from Jim at Schneider some 30 years ago who got it from Rod Harrison who bought it from Dwight. Rod raced IMSA way back then and bought a factory 914-6 to campaign he needed a back up car and converted the #30 car to look like his factory 914-6gt. I raced it in POC for over 15 years first with a 2.0 now 2.7 back then no one really knew what a Richie Gunther car was or cared the good new was I never got in any big accidents. How the car is now the body is 914 Sheridan 2.7 roll cage is like a 914-6 10in wheels 5 lug side shift transmission fiberglass front and rear hood doors bumpers fenders . My last race was at Laguna Seca where I hit a cone when the car looked like a 914-gt after that I changed the body to Sheridan and never painted it .I have been a Porsche mechanic all my life and was hoping to one day bring the car back to its glory at this time the car sits in front of my house and is turn key ready to race I will post picture when I get a chance cheers Bob

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) thanks for filling in the story, can't wait to see some current pictures- and some vintage as well. !

[7TPorsh]

The 1970 Celebrity race cars were Ginther prepped 6's. Are they still around ?

[914_teener]

The 1970 Celebrity race cars were Ginther prepped 6's. Are they still around ?

Read:

They cut all the fins out of the fan except the four standoffs for horsepower gain.


Didn't know that.

Great post. Saw the Franks and the -4 at Rennsport this year.

[seanery]

great thread! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[blabla914]

Who is talking you out of this?

Though I have to say, I appreciate how your car is a resurrected ITA racer from the 80's. That would certainly be lost.

Though I have always like the Ginter built cars since I read "Driving In Competition".

Greg, I have upfixin volume 4. It has Part I, Part II, and the article where they put the #30 on the shaker table. It's pretty light on content honestly. Maybe can scan later today or tomorrow.

Kelly