Project Turbo 914 begins..., (yes, I know you can't turbo a 914) Options

[ottox914]

One more of the install. I plan to build a 1/2 round shield for the air cleaner. There are a couple of threaded inserts on the turbo, and the shield will just need a couple tabs to easily mount and protect the air cleaner a bit more.

[ottox914]

A few more install shots, working on the oil lines.

First shot shows the oil supply and vaccume lines to the left, the oil return to the right. Before drilling and putting the line in, I ran a temp line to the oil fill tower, and fired her up! After a the longest 60 seconds ever, oil started flowing! I check under the car, no leaks, so it seems I have a system to the turbo and back. Tomorrow I will be tapping a 3/8 barbed fitting into the oil fill tower, and will use this as the location for the return oil. And yes, I will be careful NOT to get any shavings into the oil system.

When I finished for the day, pic 3 was showing in our back yard. Surely a good sign.

Tomorrow- need plugs 1 heat range cooler, make template for final boost line, from turbo to engine area, tap and install the oil return line, new dipstick, re-install intercooler, hook up the SDS, and go for a ride.

[Chris Pincetich]

Beautiful! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Minimal cutting, fits great, I want one. So this is a kit, right? You're gonna hook us all up for cheap with a group buy, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I agree the oil drain looks less than ideal, and a fatter exhaust pipe out back would increase coolness.

[ottox914]

Turbo update. Nothing but hurt. Will post more pics later.

http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7777

[GS Guy]

That stinks, I'd check the turbo over really well before deciding it's toast. Look for blades scraping the housings and any internal contact. ANY bearing noises or not perfectly smooth spots while turning would be highly suspect!

I'd also pressure test both intake and exhaust systems for ANY leaks - plug up the ends and use some soapy water or Snoop on the joints - like looking for leaks in a tire. You should be able to spot any leaks right away.

OTOH, TD04's are plentiful and cheap. Many guys upgrading their WRX's to bigger units sell their stock ones cheap.
Flanges are also easy to come by - Outback (who for some reason just changed their name to "Outfront") has inexpensive bare steel flanges for inlet and outlet sides:
http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/homepage.htm

And these guys make a trick discharge flange for better wastegate and exhaust flow (shown in the attached pic):
http://www.ztspeedandfab.com/index.htm

[arvcube]

oil out the exhaust usually means that the seals in the turbo are bad. You mentioned that your initial cold oil pressure is about 60psi, with about 45psi as normal running...way too much for the turbo seals. you should think about adding a reducer to your oil feed line just before the turbo...
great project! i'll be slappin a turbo on mine one day. still working on the MS.

[ottox914]

TURBO 914 LIVES!!!

Round 2 with a wrx turbo is a success so far. Got it installed this afternoon/evening, and test fired in the garage. No spewing oil, no odd noises. To bad its cold and snowing in WI or there'd be a road test ot report on.

Will add pics and more details sunday pm.

[Sleepin]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) That rocks! You are going to have to post some video!!!!

[GS Guy]

That's great news David! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
Looking at an earlier post up the page a bit, it was mentioned about having too much oil going to the turbo. In the FWIW dept. I noted that on my WRX/TD04 and VF10 turbos the oil input banjo bolt has very small feed holes coming out the sides of the bolt - looks like it would certainly restrict oil flow to the turbo a bit (but not pressure). I switched to all AN fittings on my turbo but kept that special banjo bolt for the restricted orifice.

I'd like to see a pic of how your oil drain is plumbed. I've got to come up with something different thatn the OEM drain for that and haven't come across any aftermarket alternatives.
Jeff

[jimkelly]

i am on a hunger strike until we get some video : )

that is some nice work!

[nsr-jamie]

Wow, this is a cool post. I just noticed it now, I read it all the way through from page 1 to here and I am glad you got the problems figured out and am really looking forward to seeing some video footage (with sound) and see how the car works and performs, this is cool! Congrats!! Please show us more, very cool thread, thanks!

Jamie

[ottox914]

This may take a while, so get comfy.

Recap: Ever since I turbo'd my Ford Focus I wanted to do the 914. Phase one was to get some ITB's (from Jake) and SDS fuel injection (direct from the SDS guys in Canada) and get that all working. I sizes the ITB's for a 2316 as I thought I might like to build one some day, so they're a little big for my current 2.0. The 2.0 is a slightly warmed over motor built by Brad Mayeur, with euro P/C's, and a little head shaving to up the CR, stock cam and valve sizes. Kerry Hunter exhaust.

I picked up a VNT turbo from a VW TDI. The turbo I put on the Focus was a VNT, but by a company called "Aerocharger" which has gone out of business. The new turbo was a Garrett. My thinking was, the TDI is a 1.8, mine is a 2.0. The TDI revs to around 4500, the stock cam'd 914 dies off at around 5-5200. After picking up the ebay gem of a turbo, I finally found a compressor map for it. Not the best match for the pressure ratios I would be running, but it was paid for, and maybe the VNT features would broaden the operating range of the turbo, and it would work out all right.

Early October 2007 I got it all set up, custom making flanges, piping, mounts. I had thought about pre-lubing the bearings, pulling the fuel pump fuse, turning the motor over w/the starter to prime everything, but in all the research I did, I never once saw anyone make a big deal of pre-lubing. After years of research, planning, I was at my moment of victory! Rather than wait another 5 minutes, I turned the key, let it idle a while, and took a test drive. After a short bit the turbo was screaming, sounding more like a mad dremel tool than a turbo. There was oil out the tail pipe. There was virtually no boost, no matter how I set the vane controller for the VNT system.

I think I fried the seals/bearings.

I put the supertrapp back on, and finished the auto cross season. A crushing blow, enough was enough.

For the month of November I searched and researched turbos, and even picked up a junk turbo off a late 80's subie, (for free) but it was so rusted togather I couldn't get the hot and cold side housings off the center section to clock it to work for me. Studying compressor maps, I decided the stock WRX turbo, a TD04-13G would be a good match, so I joined some subie boards and looked for a low mileage take off. Turbo secured, I went ebay shopping for flanges and other bits needed.

Now we're up to the present, and on to the pictures-

First is a photo of the turbo, after clocking the center section. This is a process by which you basically take both compressor housings, exhaust and cold side, off the turbo, rotate the center section as you need it to be for oil flow in /out of the bearings, and put it all back togather. Except that in an orientation other than the OEM, the waste gate actuator will not line up with the waste gate. Hmmmm.... I found that the SRT Neon had a wastegate actuator that would start to open at 5psi, and be fully open by 7psi. The stock WRX actuator worked at higher pressures, and I wanted to start out small with psi. As a bonus, the SRT actuator had an odd bend in it, that just might work for me. Well, it did, thanks to Ebay.

The next pic is the adaptor to join the turbo and the exhaust header. Initially I thought I could just weld the header flange, a triangle shape, to the turbo flange, an odd trapizoid shape, and bolt things up. Looked like it would work. Didn't. There was all kinds of turbo housing/collector issues that prevented getting the right bolts thru. We were going to have to do alot work to tap and stud the flanges to make it all work. And to top it all off, I didn't get the flanges lined up right before welding, so the whole turbo was slanted when we tried to test fit it. Hmmmm... back to the muffler shop to look for more ideas. We thought an extention of 1 1/2" would move the turbo back under the factory exhaust heat shield. Steve at the muffler shop suggested a flaired end to the extention, then we could rotate the turbo any which way we needed. Genuis. Thus was born the flange adaptor.

Next pic is the adaptor installed.

Next pic is the turbo, looking at the exhaust side. I still need to make the exhaust pipe, which will be an "L" shape, with a tab to mount it where the super trapp was mounted to the chassis on a slightly flexable mount. This will help support the turbo, so all the weight of the turbo is not on the head bolts.

Next pic is the turbo from below, and the last pic of this section is the turbo and tildon scavenge pump, viewing from the cold side of the turbo. I still need to get an air cleaner over the compressor inlet.

[iamchappy]

David, it's nice to see you are using the oil sump i made... I love your Zork tube, i picked up a flange and some pipe so i can build one for when i want to shake up the town....

This week i plan on bringing my car up to the shop for them to check out the leaks, then i can start tearing it apart again....

[ottox914]

More pics- here are some of the oiling system, there have been plenty of questions about that. I have been consulting with Corky Bell of the Bell engineering group, Inc. He seemed to think the oil pressure of the system was not a problem with this "old school" turbo, but that if I were going with a newer style ball bearing turbo we might need to be a little more careful. Good enough for Corky, good enough for me.

The current configuration, which will be changing, uses a catch can supplied by one of our members who has built a monster turbo'd orange 6cyl. Wonder who that is... The catch can hangs to low. In reality, its no lower than the engine bar, but is hangs below the valance, and the oil return line is low also. Not that I go 4 wheeling with this car, but if I went off at an auto cross, or plugged a cone just the wrong way, I could rip it appart.

Mr. Bell to the rescue again. He seemed to think the catch can would not be needed on a smaller turbo at lower rpms (its not like the stock motor will spin to 7k rpms or anything) such as this one, and advised me that going direct from the turbo oil outlet to the scavenge pump should work fine. So I will be revising the oiling system to do just that, with a very short drain off the turbo, a 90 degree turn right under the turbo, and then attach a line straight to the scavenge pump.

On to the pics-

First is the back of the car, and what you can see, and not see relative to the turbo system. My hopes are to tuck it all up under the car, so all you see is a slightly larger exhaust pipe.

Next is a close up of the back of the car. The current oiling return system is a little low.

Pic of the catch can, which will be going away.

Here is the catch can and pump.

Close up of the drain from the turbo. I'll unclamp the catch can, remove the hose, and braze on a 90 degree fitting to get the oil line tucked up under the car a little better. Better for looks as well as safety- keeping it all attached should I go farming with the car at an auto cross.

[ottox914]

Where does the air go after it enters the turbo? Here's the route:

out of the turbo, up past the starter
thru the back engine tin
into the engine area
up to the intercooler
to the left and right ITB's.

There is a puller style fan coming that will be mounted to the back of the intercooler, and can be turned on/off by the SDS system based on boost present in the system. I plan to also wire in an "always on" switch for auto cross.

[ottox914]

Remaining to be done?

Lots.

Add the puller fan to the intercooler. Re-do oil return system. Fabricate exhaust pipe. Plus whatever else I come across to improve.

***** BLING QUESTION*****

Should I take the intercooler piping in the engine area out, and:

rattle can it black
rattle can it silver
powder coat it black
powder coat it silver
leave it metal and spray a clear coat to prevent rust

Now just a few more pics of the beast-
(the back end looks high as it has been in the air alot, and not driven to settle the springs back down)

Lastly for tonight- there have been requestd for a video- I'm not going to take this car out into the salt bath that is Wisconsin roads in the winter. I did shoot a 15 sec or so vid of the turbo spining, around 12mb, (forgot to switch camera to "you tube" mode), but I have no idea how to post it. If some one can handle this, PM me your email addy, and I'll try to send you a copy.

[iamchappy]

I agree that oil can is to low, ditch it. The reason i ran my intake through the trunk was so i could get my turbo up high so it would drain and had clearance.
I do like the fact you still have your trunk. Nice work.....

[Sleepin]

Dave, All looks good. I would say your oil return setup is your weak point if you have one. My oil return on my Civic was the area I had problems with. When I originally tapped the line I wasn't thinking and ended up tapping in to the pan beneath the oil level and it ended up scaring me into a new pan that I tapped above the oil level. I see you have had a little help from the boys at H-T.com....I have been a member there for years and I can attest....there is a lot of knowledge to be had there. If you get frustrated with your oil setup, I would suggest getting ahold of the guys at Squires Turbo Systems. They have a lot of experience dealing with low mounted turbo's and are hella nice guys to deal with! They are probably going to hook me up with a turbo for my Sequoia in the future! (....errr hopefully!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) I think from the looks of things, once you get it going, you can ditch the catch can and rubber line with hose clamps and go with some SS braided lines and AN fittings. Then you should be able to flog the crap out of it without worrying about them lines. High pressure or low pressure, most rubber return lines end up leaking and cracking.

As far as the tubes go, that is personal preference...although they would look cool body color! I have never really agreed with coating the intercooler with anything...so I hope you leave that bare!

I really hope for the best with this setup! Turbocharged engines are near and dear to my heart.....if they were closer to my wallet, I would be happier...

Crazy cool!!!!!

[nein14]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[niterydr]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

This will be fun to tune (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)