 Dr 914's pictures of the steel 916 replica roof in the making |
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| nomore9one4 |
 Jan 10 2007, 05:28 PM
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#21
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Member of the Eastcoast Thread Killers Club  Group: Members Posts: 2,666 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Pittsburgh,Pa.15237 Member No.: 14 Region Association: None  |
Anyways..The guy should sell a "how to" with cardboard patterns for this. I would be interested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| jd74914 |
Jan 10 2007, 06:36 PM
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#22
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Its alive Group: Members Posts: 4,818 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jan 10 2007, 02:56 PM)  No, it will flex less rather than more with the steel roof affixed. My thought pattern had nothing to do with the steel roof being a problem. I was thinking that with an x bar connecting the windshield frame and roll bar there would be a very uneven distribution of load and hence a problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not that that makes any sense since the middle of the windshield wouldn't have any more force on it anyways. Thanks Dave . . . I did not know that. |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jan 10 2007, 06:49 PM
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#23
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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George- you know you're killing me! That's just beutiful work. I've yet to hear anything on the subject. Anxiously awaiting. Amazing what topics you miss out on here when you go out driving! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| highways |
Jan 10 2007, 06:55 PM
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#24
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 613 Joined: 18-June 05 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 4,296 |
X-Brace and a steel roof will add lot's of strength. Much less flexing in the car overall. And I would say that both an x-brace and steel roof would provide comparably the same improvements (as long as the x-brace is mounted well). I would even venture to say that reinforcing the roof in one of these two ways would be a larger stiffness improvement over a common chassis stiffening kit.
If you want to better understand the principle of distributing the sheer load around the entire box structure- get a shoe box. Now with the top firmly on the shoe box give it a twist. Now with the top off the box- give it another twist. See the difference? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| Johny Blackstain |
Jan 10 2007, 06:59 PM
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#25
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Walnut Elite Stratocaster player Group: Members Posts: 3,434 Joined: 5-December 06 From: The Shenandoah River Member No.: 7,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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QUOTE(highways @ Jan 10 2007, 07:55 PM) X-Brace and a steel roof will add lot's of strength. Much less flexing in the car overall. And I would say that both an x-brace and steel roof would provide comparably the same improvements (as long as the x-brace is mounted well). I would even venture to say that reinforcing the roof in one of these two ways would be a larger stiffness improvement over a common chassis stiffening kit. If you want to better understand the principle of distributing the sheer load around the entire box structure- get a shoe box. Now with the top firmly on the shoe box give it a twist. Now with the top off the box- give it another twist. See the difference? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Exactly! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) |
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| McMark |
Jan 10 2007, 07:03 PM
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#26
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Nice analogy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)
I've been pondering making a 916 replica with my aubergine car... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) |
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| scotty b |
Jan 10 2007, 07:12 PM
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#27
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(faux916 @ Jan 10 2007, 03:28 PM) Anyways..The guy should sell a "how to" with cardboard patterns for this. I would be interested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Really isn't that hard to do and your glass roof gives you ALL the tech you need. Proper curve, dimensions etc. No special tools other than a welder, sheetmetal brake would be neccesary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) A couple of piecxes of channel,c-clamps and a hammer can make a decent brake in a pinch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif) |
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| GeorgeRud |
Jan 10 2007, 07:19 PM
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#28
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,725 Joined: 27-July 05 From: Chicagoland Member No.: 4,482 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Beautiful work. I assume the top sheetmetal has to be formed on an English wheel to get both curvatures right. It can be amazing how something that looks so straightforward can really be quite difficult.
You have to really appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into something like this. Leave it to the Irish! |
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| Eric_Shea |
Jan 10 2007, 07:22 PM
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#29
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains  |
I'd like to build a brace like that Misha girl posted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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| scotty b |
Jan 10 2007, 07:29 PM
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#30
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(GeorgeRud @ Jan 10 2007, 05:19 PM) Beautiful work. I assume the top sheetmetal has to be formed on an English wheel to get both curvatures right. It can be amazing how something that looks so straightforward can really be quite difficult. You have to really appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into something like this. Leave it to the Irish! Little if any curveature front to back. If there is indeed some then yes a wheel is the best option. It's amazing to me that something that looks so difficult is actually so straightforward ! EDIT after looking at the pics again there is DEFINITELY front to back curve. Wheel that and lightly shrink the 2 front corners to make them pull downward |
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| nomore9one4 |
Jan 10 2007, 08:17 PM
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#31
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Member of the Eastcoast Thread Killers Club Group: Members Posts: 2,666 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Pittsburgh,Pa.15237 Member No.: 14 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(highways @ Jan 10 2007, 04:55 PM) X-Brace and a steel roof will add lot's of strength. Much less flexing in the car overall. And I would say that both an x-brace and steel roof would provide comparably the same improvements (as long as the x-brace is mounted well). I would even venture to say that reinforcing the roof in one of these two ways would be a larger stiffness improvement over a common chassis stiffening kit. If you want to better understand the principle of distributing the sheer load around the entire box structure- get a shoe box. Now with the top firmly on the shoe box give it a twist. Now with the top off the box- give it another twist. See the difference? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) With or with out shoes in it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) |
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| highways |
Jan 10 2007, 09:29 PM
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#32
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 613 Joined: 18-June 05 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 4,296 |
Without shoes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) Better weight savings (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Actually just talked to proto31 about it- told me stuff I didn't know. 914 GT's had a fiberglass top with a metal X brace in it...? It slips into the front targa seal like normal but then there was a little arrangment where it gets pinned into the frame? I'd like to see pics if anyone has them.... sounds sweet! |
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| SGB |
Jan 10 2007, 09:47 PM
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#33
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just visiting Group: Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 8-March 03 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 404 Region Association: South East States |
So when are you doing the 918 replica? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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| Aaron Cox |
Jan 11 2007, 01:24 AM
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#34
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
again... very nice fab work...
but isnt it a compund curve? not just a side to side... but there is a slight curve front to back.... english wheel? |
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| John Kelly |
Jan 11 2007, 08:14 AM
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#35
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 692 Joined: 1-May 03 From: Moclips WA. Member No.: 640 |
That is nice work! An english wheel would be good choice, but it would probably take two people to keep conrol of the panel. One of them would have to be pretty skilled. Getting the shape in the right area would be tricky for a beginner. Any panel that is shaped free form without being restrained will want to curve in directions that are unintended by the operator. Some of the TV shows make it seem like an english wheel is the magic tool for something like this. It is, but it won't do the work by itself. There is a pretty steep learning curve. It can be very frustrating. You have to stretch the areas that need the most shape, and then do lighter stretching nearby to blend the shape into the rest of the panel, all the while controlling the contours in all directions. So, you stretch, and smooth. The metal goes catywhampus on you (because it can) then you have to roll the panel back into the desired contours, check where you still need stretching and start all over again.
Another method would be make the frame, roll the metal to fit side to side, weld, then add shape with a palm nailer. More intuitive for a beginner, because you stretch where it is low until you have the right contours, and the frame keeps the perimeter in line for you. The frame would have to be very stiff to keep from getting distorted by the stretching work. A mixture of the two methods above would be interesting as well. You would add shape until the panel was getting out of your control, then weld it to the frame and start stretching with the palm nailer. The hemmed edge? on the rear would not be easy for a beginner either. Nice work! I think large panels with fairly low crowned shape like that are sometimes harder to do than ones with lots of compound curve in them. John www.ghiaspecialties.com |
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| PinetreePorsche |
Jan 11 2007, 08:45 AM
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 235 Joined: 14-November 05 From: Falls Church, VA Member No.: 5,124 |
Geo: I recall an article somewhere about you locating an original, clearly hand-prototyped 916--but I don't recall where. Probably there are some others on this site who also don't know the story. Could you give us the name, date, etc of that article, and maybe a short paragraph that capsulizes the story--particularly why the solid roof was missing when you got yours? (Was it originally solid on these cars for structural/tortional rigidity, or what?)
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| sechszylinder |
Jan 11 2007, 10:10 AM
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 9-April 03 From: /earth/europe/germany/berlin Member No.: 545 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(John Kelly @ Jan 11 2007, 06:14 AM) Another method would be make the frame, roll the metal to fit side to side, weld, then add shape with a palm nailer. More intuitive for a beginner, because you stretch where it is low until you have the right contours, and the frame keeps the perimeter in line for you. The frame would have to be very stiff to keep from getting distorted by the stretching work. A mixture of the two methods above would be interesting as well. You would add shape until the panel was getting out of your control, then weld it to the frame and start stretching with the palm nailer. The hemmed edge? on the rear would not be easy for a beginner either. Nice work! I think large panels with fairly low crowned shape like that are sometimes harder to do than ones with lots of compound curve in them. John www.ghiaspecialties.com Hello John, I'd like to mention a third method. Wouldn't it be good idea to take the rear trunk lid for the curved regions of the roof ? It should have nearly the same shape as the roof. If this would work, one could alternatively check the junkyards for properly shaped roofs of donorcars. Benno |
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| dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Jan 11 2007, 10:15 AM
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#38
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,110 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(SGB @ Jan 10 2007, 07:47 PM) Who has the engine? |
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| dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Jan 11 2007, 10:17 AM
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#39
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,110 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(PinetreePorsche @ Jan 11 2007, 06:45 AM) Geo: I recall an article somewhere about you locating an original, clearly hand-prototyped 916--but I don't recall where. Probably there are some others on this site who also don't know the story. Could you give us the name, date, etc of that article, and maybe a short paragraph that capsulizes the story--particularly why the solid roof was missing when you got yours? (Was it originally solid on these cars for structural/tortional rigidity, or what?) There have been many articles over the years about our Brumos Peter Greg 916 but the excellence article of June 1994 is probably the one of which you are thinking. Yes the roof was added for rigidity. |
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| dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Jan 11 2007, 10:18 AM
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#40
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,110 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Jan 11 2007, 08:10 AM) QUOTE(John Kelly @ Jan 11 2007, 06:14 AM) Another method would be make the frame, roll the metal to fit side to side, weld, then add shape with a palm nailer. More intuitive for a beginner, because you stretch where it is low until you have the right contours, and the frame keeps the perimeter in line for you. The frame would have to be very stiff to keep from getting distorted by the stretching work. A mixture of the two methods above would be interesting as well. You would add shape until the panel was getting out of your control, then weld it to the frame and start stretching with the palm nailer. The hemmed edge? on the rear would not be easy for a beginner either. Nice work! I think large panels with fairly low crowned shape like that are sometimes harder to do than ones with lots of compound curve in them. John www.ghiaspecialties.com Hello John, I'd like to mention a third method. Wouldn't it be good idea to take the rear trunk lid for the curved regions of the roof ? It should have nearly the same shape as the roof. If this would work, one could alternatively check the junkyards for properly shaped roofs of donorcars. Benno Geoff and the Irishmen actually sacrificed a 914 fiberglass roof to make the steel one. |
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