914 Suspension Upgrade Spirited Street No Track?, What do you think?? Options

[hwgunner]

I am trying to figure out what the best set up would be for very spirited street driving. This is on a stock bodied car with factory 2.0 fuchs. Will be sticking with 4 lug. Here is what I was thinking. Rebuild front and rear calipers and install Good brake pads. Install crossdrilled rotors. Make sure the MC is in good working order and if not replace with Original. Install "T" in place of proportioning valve. FRONT-- Install new 21mm front torsion bars. Install properly grooved and greased softer PG Bushings along with zirk fittings on front A-arms. Install new Bilstein Sport inserts. REAR-- Install new Bilstein sports with coil over kit and 200lb springs. Install properly grooved and greased softer PG Bushings along with zirk fittings on rear trailing arms. Replace all front and rear stock sway bar bushings with new OEM. Buy, balance and install 4 new 205/60-15 tires and allign. Corner balance. Check and repalce any other wear items that might need it like ball joints and wheel bearings.

Did I miss anything? Are the 200 pound springs too much? should I go with progressive 180lb. Am I all wrong?? What do you suggest??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[mills914/s]

Sounds good Jon. I think 200 pounders are to much but thats me. Everything else sounds great ..Kinda what im doing right now. Just sent you a message about the sway bushings. How much ?
Seth

[914werke]

If your gonna go to that trouble ..think Needles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[DanT]

those torsion bars and rear springs are going to be killer on a street car.
Normally torsion bars of those sizes and rear springs are used in AX and track cars....read that as quite stiff for a street car. Maybe that is what you are looking for.
For a street driven 914 I would install new stock size torsion bars, a stock sway bar, and possibly Koni adjustable shocks. that way you can make the car as stiff or soft as you like. soft for normal street driving and stiffen up the shocks to get aggressive.
for the rear I would consider 100# springs along with a stock sway bar and again possibly adjustable Konis to make it as soft of stiff as you like for street driving.


My current track car runs Koni adjustables, 21mm torsion bars and a stock sway bar up front. In the rear I run Bilstein sports with 180# springs. with very aggressive lowering and lots of negative camber.


as far as brakes, if you are staying with stock brakes, then rebuild them to new or have Eric Shea do it for you (they come out looking and functioning like brand new), leave the Prop Valve. If you put in a T you will get too much rear brake bias.
Placing a T is used when putting in front brakes like M calipers (with much larger than stock pistons).

Just my 2 cents. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[hwgunner]

If your gonna go to that trouble ..think Needles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

I think the needles would transfer to much noise and vibration. Can someone who has done both tell me???

[DanT]

If your gonna go to that trouble ..think Needles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

I think the needles would transfer to much noise and vibration. Can someone who has done both tell me???

not on a street car.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[hwgunner]

those torsion bars and rear springs are going to be killer on a street car.
Normally torsion bars of those sizes and rear springs are used in AX and track cars....read that as quite stiff for a street car. Maybe that is what you are looking for.
For a street driven 914 I would install new stock size torsion bars, a stock sway bar, and possibly Koni adjustable shocks. that way you can make the car as stiff or soft as you like. soft for normal street driving and stiffen up the shocks to get aggressive.
for the rear I would consider 140# springs along with a stock sway bar and again possibly adjustable Konis to make it as soft of stiff as you like for street driving.


My current track car runs Koni adjustables, 21mm torsion bars and a stock sway bar up front. In the rear I run Bilstein sports with 180# springs. with very aggressive lowering and lots of negative camber.


as far as brakes, if you are staying with stock brakes, then rebuild them to new or have Eric Shea do it for you (they come out looking and functioning like brand new), leave the Prop Valve. If you put in a T you will get too much rear brake bias.
Placing a T is used when putting in front brakes like M calipers (with much larger than stock pistons).

Just my 2 cents. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Dan can I have your track car??

I didn't even think about the Koni's. I think that is the way to go. Gives the chance at best of both worlds.

[hwgunner]

Sounds good Jon. I think 200 pounders are to much but thats me. Everything else sounds great ..Kinda what im doing right now. Just sent you a message about the sway bushings. How much ?
Seth

Thanks seth, got the payment and going out Monday. Let me know if there is anything else you need.

[mills914/s]

Yep jon thank you ..Next is turbo tie rod kit.I think.

[sww914]

I have 23mm torsion bars and 200# springs in my (very light) track car.
It is really stiff. If I sit on a fender or quarter panel, the car goes down less than 1/2". I weigh 225 if I've been doing the right things lately.
I think it would be waaayyy too stiff for the street if you do what you're saying, because that's just a little less than what I have.
Also, I wouldn't bother with the cross drilling, just regular rotors, maybe with gas slots. I've seen too many broken cross drilled rotors to be very enthusiastic about them.

[brp914]

afaik needle bearings are not available. As far as the needles making too much noise - I dont hear them on my -6. As to their ride characteristics, it's hard to say since many other changes were made at the same time. It will be interesting to see their wear characteristics over time. The bilstein sports with stock t-bars are firm but not overly so in my opinion. My goal was to minimize unsprung weight so I went with the "upside down" style bilstein struts, S calipers, and drilled rotors. It handles well, but I don't race so I don't know how it compares with other cars.

[Dave_Darling]

I would NOT recommend 140# rear springs with all other components being stock. The car will almost certainly be rather tail-happy that way.

A 21mm adjustable front sway bar up front will make a much more balanced package with the 140s in the rear. I have a 19mm front bar, and it is close to maxed to provide a fairly neutral balance. No rear sway bar. It is also pretty stiff for most street driving...

For a street car, I would consider 100# rear springs and a 19mm adjustable front sway bar. Stock front torsions, and experiment with the rear sway bar. (If your car has the provisions already, at least. IMHO it's not worth the bother of welding in the mounts and locating the proper shock bolts if your car doesn't already have them.)

--DD

[hwgunner]

afaik needle bearings are not available. As far as the needles making too much noise - I dont hear them on my -6. As to their ride characteristics, it's hard to say since many other changes were made at the same time. It will be interesting to see their wear characteristics over time. The bilstein sports with stock t-bars are firm but not overly so in my opinion. My goal was to minimize unsprung weight so I went with the "upside down" style bilstein struts, S calipers, and drilled rotors. It handles well, but I don't race so I don't know how it compares with other cars.

Do you have a pic of the upside down struts??

[brp914]

they are just the normal bilsteins. The insert bolts to the fender and is stationary while the strut body moves around it. the insert piston is attached to the bottom of the strut with a roll pin. If you go this route you using what was installed on a 911sc. The inserts will be too stiff for a 914 so you'll need to get them revalved at bilstein for ~$55 ea.

[sean_v8_914]

I agree with Dan. that is a AX car set up. street cars are better with very slight increase in spring rates. you can run a stiffer sway bar to help with handling improvements.

many very fast 914 drivers I have met do not run a rear bar

[sean_v8_914]

Weltmeister chart

[Eric_Shea]

Weltmeister chart

Brought to you by the friendly folks that sell Weltmeister products... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I was going to weight in but Dan already did... WORD for WORD.

Stock Brakes
Stock T-Bars
Koni's
Keep the P-Valve
Stock Sway bars... (I "might" consider a 19mm front though)

[alpha434]

Let him screw around. His idea of sharp handling may be very different from yours. Driveability is a tough call, and it's generally up to the driver. I.E., some people can clutchless shift their teenr for almost a flippin' month now because I don't have time, or the willingness to jump under there and adjust it.

I also do aluminum mount for engine, trans, etc., which other people find very very annoying (with the noise)

[Eric_Shea]

Let him screw around.

Oh... OK. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

But I thought he said...

What do you suggest???

[SirAndy]

Install "T" in place of proportioning valve.

don't ... if you run stock brakes front/rear, using a "T" will put too much bias to the rear and they will lock up first.
which is a very, very, very bad thing ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

PS: as for the needle bearings, the noise comment is non-sense.
if anything, they're quieter as the suspension is now working much smoother ...