Repainting the 914: Down to metal, always?, Curious to get your thoughts Options

[horizontally-opposed]

So I'm curious to see what the collected wisdom and experience here says -- and I'd like to hear from those who are NOT/have NOT stripped the car of every part for a "rotisserie" style restoration.

This is for those of us with running, driving 914s considering a paint job yet less than enthusiastic about disassembling the whole car.

I'd especially like to hear from Dr. 914 and others who have restored multiple 914s over time and seen how the paint jobs held up. Is a rust bubble the kiss of death for all surrounding metal?

Thanks, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

pete

[Kona Cruisers]

depends on your budget...............

comeing from a body shop owner........

remember you could be opening a can of worms. what you thougt was going to cost you x amount of dollars just grew by three times for metal replacement, or where someone put an inch oof bondo or... well you get the picture.

[jd74914]

Always take care of rust. Rust bubbles will be the end of a good new paint job. If the factory paint is still there, or if there is a really good layer of paint that has adhered well to the metal its a perfect base to paint on. IMHO the factory paint if its still ok is a great base to paint on. The only worry is hidden rust (which usually seems to appear in the sail panels it seems).

This is all my opinion though, I will be repainting my car in a month or two and have stripped a lot of paint because it is rust, but did leave the well adhered paint on and am just going to scuff it well. My dad has repainted over Porsche factory paint and he thinks it a good base, just as most factory paint is a solid base to start from when repainting a car.

If its original factory paint there won't be much filler under it.

As far as stripping parts off you do want to get as much off as possible to avoid getting overspray on visible pieces. In my case this is a moot point because the car is mostly taken apart for restoration anyways.

[Borderline]

Pete, if I recall correctly your car looked pretty good. It doesn't need painting. From what I've read, the strip decision is based on how many coats of paint are on the car and the quality of the paint used by the PO's. My car had some really cheap paint over the original. I decided to strip it down so I had a good base for the paint. You've had your car a long time so you should know its history. Obviously any rust needs to be repaired properly.

Good luck!

[SirAndy]

So I'm curious to see what the collected wisdom and experience here says

we just found 8 (eight!) layers of old paint on my drivers side fender. with primer and bondo, it's easily 1/2" thick ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)


never ever again. from now on, it's either acid dip and nice or rattle can and don't care.

anything else inbetween just makes me wanna puke ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) Andy

[VaccaRabite]

Down to metal. Only way to be sure.

Besides, if we just painted our cars, they might actually get driven and not sit in our garages for years at a time. We can't have that.

Zach

[boxstr]

This is the black widow....naked

[boxstr]

The black widow....basic black

[thomasotten]

Focuas on the rusted sections. Not the non-rusted.

[Lou W]

Damn, I feel disenfranchised.... I wanted to vote (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)



Oh well, I'm gonna tell you anyway what I think, strip it to the original to get a good base and if the original is cracked or bad.. strip it all the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

This is the black widow....naked

How many paint jobs up to that point, and how did you get it down as a complete car? Or did you?

Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Spoke]

My bud just had his 69 Camaro painted by a reputable shop. They stripped down to metal to find slightly warped door, roof, and quarterpanels which were straightened with bondo. So they replaced the panels and painted. Looks really nice in Midnight Black. Of course he dropped something north of $10K for the paint job.

For that price, I could buy 2 or 3 914s and keep the best looking one.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/red914.jpg)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ravenna914.jpg)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/signal914.jpg)

Spoke

[IronHillRestorations]

For an optimum job a total strip down is probably best. If you are on original paint and there's not much bubbling rust, then you might get by with spot repair and respray over original paint.

From my experience, the total strip job yields best results and you get to put modern materials on your car like self etching primer, catalyzed primer filler, and much improved top coat paints with much better UV additives, etc.

The other thing you'll probably find if you have the car stripped (not dipped) is there's probably some light rust hiding in places you didn't know.

If possible I'd go with soda blasting the old paint off. From everything I've read it seems to be the least invasive removal method, and you can go from there.

[gopack]

I voted for strip it to bare metal, both here and with my wallet! I didn't want my baby to die an early death of some form of cancer. Plus the PO(s) had covered her with at least 3 different layers of so-so to crappy paint and the bondo on the drivers side and trunk lid were pretty thick!
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/GOPACK42/HPIM2581.jpg)

(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/GOPACK42/HPIM2613.jpg)
Here you can see the shiney surfaces like fenders were soda blasted, and the dull places like wheel wells were sand blasted. blasting cost about $1K If you don't have the skills, I would budget at least $15-20K for the stripping, body work and paint! It hurts to think of it, but I think the finished result will be someting I can gaze upon with pride for many years!

(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/GOPACK42/REARFENDERCUTOUT.jpg)
a little paint archeology!

(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/GOPACK42/DSCN1872.jpg)
and how she looks today

[rick 918-S]

A couple of issues:

I have painted over factory paint stripping only the panels that needed to be stripped. By this I mean... during the process of repairing a hood panel for instance you sand and feather several rock chips that you will end up surface priming and working to fill the surface difference. Rather than take the chance the new product will soft bridge the old hard finish and cause a ring effect when the new finish is applied it's better to strip off all the paint on this panel. In the end it's the same amount of work with less change of a negative result.

Then if your car has been repainted there is no way of knowing what will happen to this recoated finish when sandwiched between a new paint system and the original finish. There is no way of knowing if the original finish was prepped well enough to hold 6 more mils of expanding and contracting top coat. An educated shop will choose not to paint over this. The additional time and expense in materials will far out weigh the risk of attempting this method of repair. Someone will need to pay for this mistake if things go wrong and 99.9 times out of 100 it won't be the vehicle owner. When they put their vehicle in the hands of the shop they expect them to know their business. BTW: this method can work fine but a wise shop owner will ask himself (at the risk of loosing the job) what if it doesn't? So when a shop tells you they don't want to paint over your old repaint they are not just wanting to charge you more money they are most likely concerned this will blow up in their face and cause an issue for both the shop and the vehicle owner. A wise shop owner can't stay in business by loosing money during repairs. So at the risk of watching a guy walk out the door you can only justify it to yourself by saying; " you can't loose money on something you don't repair" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Then there is an issue with the chance of "creep." In order to effect a quality refinish things like bumpers, moulding, locks, handles and trim need to be removed. If there not and a new finish is applied over the original finish several things can happen. These are three of the most common creep issues that can turn you otherwise nice repaint into amature night.

1) New primer, sealer and or paint can creep under the tape job and end up on the trim, handles and other parts you do not want painted.

2) Cleaning and sanding next to the trim etc. can be diffecult. uncleaned finish holds wax and dirt. sanded old finish will not hold the new finish tightly. As the new finish dries and shrink to a tight hard surface it will chip around the unpreped area's. Again amature night.

3) And one of the worse things that can happen is the lack of a complete forensic repair from not removing the unboltable parts. This sometimes hides dorment rust. You know the kind I mean. The kind that started with a small chip, the rust starts to creep under the paint. It never really bleeds out in the surface until you chip off the crusted growth. This can be disrupted by sanding vibrations on the panels. The result can be rust creeping out from under the edge of the trim shortly after the paint work is completed. You'll see a little orange stain start to form at the edge of the trim and say; " I just paid to have that FIXED!" When infact we can't fix what we can't see but we will end up either fixing it, getting slammed for not offering a warrentee or worse not having the owner of the car take responsability for the end result.

So, in retrospect, You may need to consult a shop you trust. Listen to their advice. Don't just follow their advice like a blind man. Get a second opinion or two. Then use your best judgement. If the price is too high at the first estimate go home, save more money or work a deal with the shop to maybe pull the trim and bumpers youself to help with the cost.
Don't eliminate work the car may need based on a budget. (which I know wasn't the original question or the issue) I wandered a little but this is too complicated an issue for a click in a pole.

I hope this helped. Here's a challenge for you Pete. Take your car out and get some estimates with these idea's and concepts in mind. Then report back to us with the findings. Tell us what the shops advised you to do. Not names of shops just the advise.

Remember there's always time to do it right the second time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

So I'm curious to see what the collected wisdom and experience here says -- and I'd like to hear from those who are NOT/have NOT stripped the car of every part for a "rotisserie" style restoration.

This is for those of us with running, driving 914s considering a paint job yet less than enthusiastic about disassembling the whole car.

I'd especially like to hear from Dr. 914 and others who have restored multiple 914s over time and seen how the paint jobs held up. Is a rust bubble the kiss of death for all surrounding metal?

Thanks, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

pete

thank you for the consideration. We always say that if the 914 still has the unmolested factory finish (meaning no cracking of the original finish) that we can prep and paint over it. When the cars were painted at the factory the metal prep was the best and cannot be duplicated. If the 914 has been repainted, we ALWAYS media blast to bare metal. If the factory finish has rusted areas they can be spot stripped and worked. Obviously if there are many of them, we media blast the whole car to bare metal. Paint products these days are superb compared to yesteryear. Another point is that we always base coat clear coat to avoid fading. These type finishes (polyurethene paints) seem to last forever!

[GaroldShaffer]

So I'm curious to see what the collected wisdom and experience here says -- and I'd like to hear from those who are NOT/have NOT stripped the car of every part for a "rotisserie" style restoration.

This is for those of us with running, driving 914s considering a paint job yet less than enthusiastic about disassembling the whole car.

Pete, this exactly what I am having done now. Should have my car home mid Mayish. The car was taken down to bare metal. I had some minor rust issues and a very bad respray over the orginal paint. Shelby Chan (flatout on this site) is doing the work. I pulled my bumpers, taillights & front turnsignal buckets, chrome trim, old seals, locks and a few other small items. I also removed the seats, back pad, carpet and a few others things just to make sure nothing else needed to be repaired.

I drove 5 1/2 hours one way to get my car to her. Yes, they were closer shops around here, but everyone I went to made me feel like I was bothering them with my NARP. I heard about her work here on the site and contacted her. I won't tell you the price, that is up to Shelby, but let's just say it was very very fair.

I am sure she will be getting a lot of PMs & calls after I post pictures when my 914 is done.

[boxstr]

The black widow was an original black 74. I purchased hte car from Dan Root, It appeared that just one repaint(very poor) was applied to the car.
I stripped the car and a couple of people hand sanded the car to what you see in the pic.
The body had no bondo or patch panels or rust. All of the lids and doors were removed for paint and reinstalled for proper alignment.
CCLIN914NATION

[andys]

I just had this conversation with a custom car painter. His opinion coincides with George's. Few can duplicate the quality of the original factory prep. Of course a show quality job requires a all encompassing prep and paint, but that is a lot of $$ and/or time. My SoCal, garage stored for the last 12 years 914 is an exceptional example, so I will likely paint over the original paint. The one door that has bondo/repair will go down to metal.

Andys

[Gudhjem]

So I'm curious to see what the collected wisdom and experience here says -- and I'd like to hear from those who are NOT/have NOT stripped the car of every part for a "rotisserie" style restoration.

This is for those of us with running, driving 914s considering a paint job yet less than enthusiastic about disassembling the whole car.

I'd especially like to hear from Dr. 914 and others who have restored multiple 914s over time and seen how the paint jobs held up. Is a rust bubble the kiss of death for all surrounding metal?

Thanks, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

pete

I've been pondering the same questions myself, so glad to see all those with experience weighing in here.

I'm also wondering if the experts can offer their insights on prep method for a less-than-rotisserie repaint. Assuming the car has only removable exterior components removed (trim, seals, etc.) but is not a tub, obviously dipping isn't an option. Can a car still be sand/media blasted like that? Anyone have any experience with "homestyle" media balsters (I suppose it would be the ones that use the dissolving media)? If you are going the labor-intensive route and useing sanders/sanding blocks and paint remover, is this really feasible to get down to or close to bare metal on a car with 3 or 4 coats of bad paint?

Sorry Pete if this is a highjack, seemed like a close enough issue to include it here.