Stolen 914 on Ebay, Purchased from Camp 914 a year ago and then stolen. Options

[grantsfo]

Sounds remarkably similar to comments we made about a certain prototype, Grant.

Some of us have learned... some... not so much.

Yep Original "owners" have some similarities. LOL!

[smokey]

So you are admitting that the Cops or Tow Company, Lien Company did not notifiy you that the car was being liened because the Oregon plate was a different person. Therefore they sent a lien letter out to that person, not you. And this is because you liked the way the plate LOOKED?
Are you kidding me?

When I registered the stolen vehicle report I gave them the Oregon plates, the CA plates, and the CA registration information. Obviously this was enough because they registered the car as a stolen vehicle and it was picked up by the CHP as such.

The problem is that when the CHP picked it up, they didn't go to the SV report, they looked to the current DMV registrant, which wouldn't have been me under any circumstance since it had been re-registered twice.

But when CHP picked up the car, it had not been reported stolen yet. They imponded the car because the driver had a suspended licence. Correct?
And this is how it came to a tow yard, with Oregon plates! ANd your so called friend was helping you store this beauty! How is he or she not involved with this Oregon plated machine?

[grantsfo]

So you are admitting that the Cops or Tow Company, Lien Company did not notifiy you that the car was being liened because the Oregon plate was a different person. Therefore they sent a lien letter out to that person, not you. And this is because you liked the way the plate LOOKED?
Are you kidding me?

When I registered the stolen vehicle report I gave them the Oregon plates, the CA plates, and the CA registration information. Obviously this was enough because they registered the car as a stolen vehicle and it was picked up by the CHP as such.

The problem is that when the CHP picked it up, they didn't go to the SV report, they looked to the current DMV registrant, which wouldn't have been me under any circumstance since it had been re-registered twice.

But when CHP picked up the car, it had not been reported stolen yet. They imponded the car because the driver had a suspended licence. Correct?
And this is how it came to a tow yard, with Oregon plates! ANd your so called friend was helping you store this beauty! How is he or she not involved with this Oregon plated machine?

If a freind trusted their car with me and then car went missing I would report it stolen immediately. Wonder why it wasnt reported stolen by the "Freind".

[ammason]

CHP pulled the car over 2 months after I'd filed the report, and impounded it because there was a Department of Justice stolen vehicle hold on the car. That's when CHP filed the vehicle as "recovered".

I don't know if it still had my plates on it or if it had been issued new plates at the DMV, but that's irrelevant as the DOJ uses the VIN to track stolen cars.

To put an end to any doubt of my claim, here's a scan of my registration dated 4/8/05, 6 days after I bought it from CAMP.

[ammason]

As for my friend, he might be involved, as might Salayfo Smith and King and Pat's Lein Service, all the way up to the current owner... All of these people might have something to do with it, and I'm working with law enforcement to follow up on each one of those leads outside of this forum.

This is an open book as far as I'm concerned, and all I'm interested in is getting my car back.

Thank you all again for the support. If anyone has any additional advice please let me know... I'll keep you all updated if anything positive happens, and if you have any questions don't hesitate to post or contact me.

Aaron

[ammason]

I don't know how necessary these are, but here are scans (1) (2) (3) of my passport with stamps showing the following:

9/6/05: Left Honduras
9/24/05: Entered Colombia
10/3/05: Left Colombia
10/5/05: Entered Panama
10/19/05: Entered Costa Rica
11/2/05: Entered USA

Any gaps are because I was sailing and it can take a few weeks to get from country to country, especially when you shred sails in a gale like we did trying to leave Honduras. If necessary I'm sure I can dig up zarpes (sailing vessel documents) by calling the various ports.

The car was registered on 10/28/05, while I was hiking up volcanoes in the jungle.

I hope this puts to rest any idea that the car was not mine or I had anything to do with some kind of scam. No insurance money was ever claimed, no one benefited here aside from the people who stole the car.

The situation sucks, and if anyone has anything additional to add to it then great, but I'm going to try to keep the issue off the board unless something productive is brought up. The seller feels entitled to profits, I disagree, and a 3rd party is going to have to make that decision.

[smokey]

CHP pulled the car over 2 months after I'd filed the report, and impounded it because there was a Department of Justice stolen vehicle hold on the car. That's when CHP filed the vehicle as "recovered".

I don't know if it still had my plates on it or if it had been issued new plates at the DMV, but that's irrelevant as the DOJ uses the VIN to track stolen cars.

To put an end to any doubt of my claim, here's a scan of my registration dated 4/8/05, 6 days after I bought it from CAMP.

So they never arrested the driver of a "stolen" vehicle? I would think they would have.

[PeeGreen 914]

I think everything sounds like you are very truthful in what you are saying.I feel bad for Smokey, but he needs to see that the facts lead up to the car still being yours rightfully. I really hope this gets worked out for you Aaron.

[ammason]

So they never arrested the driver of a "stolen" vehicle? I would think they would have.

I'm not sure what they did... I've called the CHP myself to ask about the circumstances and they've said I need to go through the ATTF. Andy Cosgrove, the ATTF CHP officer working on the case, has requests in for all the documents pertaining to the original registration of the car to Salayfo Smith, the recovery and impounding of the car, and the subsequent lein sale.

I don't know if they arrested the guy, and I'm waiting on documents that were requested weeks ago to tell me that.

[smokey]

So they never arrested the driver of a "stolen" vehicle? I would think they would have.

I'm not sure what they did... I've called the CHP myself to ask about the circumstances and they've said I need to go through the ATTF. Andy Cosgrove, the ATTF CHP officer working on the case, has requests in for all the documents pertaining to the original registration of the car to Salayfo Smith, the recovery and impounding of the car, and the subsequent lein sale.

I don't know if they arrested the guy, and I'm waiting on documents that were requested weeks ago to tell me that.

You don't know if they arrested the guy?
So the car was reregisterd 4 days before you reenterd the US. You file a stolen car report with the police. How come they did not go after the guy who registered the car on 10/28/05? Or find his name, address etc. Couldn't you have followed that to recovery?

Please tell what Andy Cosgrove told you?

[ammason]

I think everything sounds like you are very truthful in what you are saying.I feel bad for Smokey, but he needs to see that the facts lead up to the car still being yours rightfully. I really hope this gets worked out for you Aaron.

Thanks. I don't see the point in this clogging up the board anymore though... The problem is that everything here is subjective and speculative, and doesn't really solve anything. Outside of the board though, these things never tend to just go away ...

[ammason]

You don't know if they arrested the guy?
So the car was reregisterd 4 days before you reenterd the US. You file a stolen car report with the police. How come they did not go after the guy who registered the car on 10/28/05? Or find his name, address etc. Couldn't you have followed that to recovery?

Please tell what Andy Cosgrove told you?

When I entered the country it was in Miami and I wasn't back in CA until almost 2 months later after spending time in FL, NY, and Egypt; I didn't end up back in CA until towards the end of the month, and filed the report on December 26th, the Monday after Christmas.

They should've gone after the guy then and there. That's where the biggest mistake was made - Oakland PD never checked the VIN or the plates against the DMV database - if they had I would've marched over with the fuzz in tow and picked up the car then and there. They're supposed to take stolen vehicle reports only from the registered owner, but in my case they saw I had a copy of the registration in hand and took that instead of actually checking.

[PeeGreen 914]

Smokey

Sorry, I don't know your real name or I would address you by that. You have to realize that no matter what an officer told you it does not mean jack. They are hired to enforce the law as they understand it. However, the lawyers and judges are the ones that are to interperate the law. Officers can have opinions just like you and I as to who should get what, but it is up to the lawyers and judges to decide what is legally true. This whole issue is a very hard one to figure, but I would be willing to bet that, given all information, a judge would look at this and say that Aaron is the true owner. Just my opinion though. I don't believe anyone here blames you for the misfortune that has occured to Aaron, but we do ask that you work WITH him as to get this all figured out.

[dakotaewing]

So you are admitting that the Cops or Tow Company, Lien Company did not notifiy you that the car was being liened because the Oregon plate was a different person. Therefore they sent a lien letter out to that person, not you. And this is because you liked the way the plate LOOKED?
Are you kidding me?

When I registered the stolen vehicle report I gave them the Oregon plates, the CA plates, and the CA registration information. Obviously this was enough because they registered the car as a stolen vehicle and it was picked up by the CHP as such.

The problem is that when the CHP picked it up, they didn't go to the SV report, they looked to the current DMV registrant, which wouldn't have been me under any circumstance since it had been re-registered twice.

But when CHP picked up the car, it had not been reported stolen yet. They imponded the car because the driver had a suspended licence. Correct?
And this is how it came to a tow yard, with Oregon plates! ANd your so called friend was helping you store this beauty! How is he or she not involved with this Oregon plated machine?

Ed Holley (Aka Smokey)
No matter what excuses or reasoning you wish to use, there is still a lack of due process. That lack of due process constitutes theft - Your actions and unwillingness to provide any "documentation" that you have with the DMV, continues the lack of due process - and that it still appears that you are in possesion of a stolen vehicle, with a title that is not in your name, that you are attempting to sell -

As some others have stated here this sounds very similar to another situation we saw unfold on this board a few years ago - Whether you are right or wrong will not be determined by me, but the sale and theft of this car were well documented prior to your apparent possession and attempt to sell the vehicle -

Aaron has provided significant documentation to support his story -
You have provided none -

[ammason]

Please tell what Andy Cosgrove told you?

Andy has told me there were mistakes made and he's trying to get documents that show where and when. It's his opinion that since the car has been through a lot of different owners and that I probably won't be able to get it back.

This car had a lot of owners in between when it was reported stolen and when it was recovered and delivered to the original owner as well, 37 years later.

The thing is, I'm not really interested in opinions. Andy can speculate, but what I'm asking him to do is his job. If I end up with a decision from a judge, then that's great. Until then, I'll do whatever the process needs me to.

[smokey]

Please tell what Andy Cosgrove told you?

Andy has told me there were mistakes made and he's trying to get documents that show where and when. It's his opinion that since the car has been through a lot of different owners and that I probably won't be able to get it back.

This car had a lot of owners in between when it was reported stolen and when it was recovered and delivered to the original owner as well, 37 years later.

The thing is, I'm not really interested in opinions. Andy can speculate, but what I'm asking him to do is his job. If I end up with a decision from a judge, then that's great. Until then, I'll do whatever the process needs me to.

So I think your in denial. The car was towed (NOT STOLEN) from the streets of Oakland with the non conforming plates (Illegal) which you thought "looked good". While you were in Mongolia or France or Chile or whereever you were, you lacked the sense of placing your car in a secure place. If you had put the correct plates on it or took it off the street than your problem might not have existed in the first place. But you did not. You expected the Tax payers of Oakland to store your car on public streets with an out of state plate that was registered to someone else. No one should suffer the foolishness of others. Do you honestly believe a judge would concur with you?

[GWN7]

I've read this thread from the begining and the facts are simple. The owner of this car never gave up ownership of the car. It was reported stolen when he knew it was stolen. He never signed off of the ownership by either transfering ownership to a insurance company visa settlement or by abandonment. The fact that it was re-titled several times after it was stolen has no bearing on who's name is on a title to it now. It is the property of the original owner until such time as he surenders ownership.

I just hope "Smokey" has the opinion from the CHP officer in writing. If I remember from the last stolen 914 thread, possesion of a stolen 914 is good for 6 months in jail with bail set at $1,000,000

[jonferns]

. The fact that it was re-titled several times after it was stolen has no bearing on who's name is on a title to it now. It is the property of the original owner until such time as he surenders ownership.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[ammason]

So I think your in denial. The car was towed (NOT STOLEN) from the streets of Oakland with the non conforming plates (Illegal) which you thought "looked good". While you were in Mongolia or France or Chile or whereever you were, you lacked the sense of placing your car in a secure place. If you had put the correct plates on it or took it off the street than your problem might not have existed in the first place. But you did not. You expected the Tax payers of Oakland to store your car on public streets with an out of state plate that was registered to someone else. No one should suffer the foolishness of others. Do you honestly believe a judge would concur with you?

Smokey - the car was not towed. We've been over this.

My first assumption was that it had been towed, but that was ruled out after checking Oakland PD tow records, making phone calls to local tow yards, and actually visiting the Oakland tow yards and asking questions. I spent several days doing this and only after doing that did I file a stolen vehicle report.

The car was stolen from me: this is not up for debate. Perhaps it was stolen and sold by my friend, perhaps it was stolen my some 3rd party, perhaps Salayfo Smith himself stole it and then had the nerve to go and register it himself thinking he could sell it really quick. I don't know. What I do know is that it was stolen, and who it was stolen by doesn't really have any bearing on our current interaction.

[hwgunner]

ammason you have pm.