OT Engineers / Scientists, How many are out there Options

[914nerd]

And what do people think about the current state of science in this country?
Because, from my point of view, we have some very hard times coming
A lot of the jobsecurity that the sciences once had is disappearing
There is really little incentive to going into the sciences, and other countries are going to eat our lunch in any technical field

[mrdezyne]

BS-ME
ID MGR / ME for Sonar and GPS consumer products.

"Creative ideas reside in peoples minds but are trapped there in fear of rejection. Create a judgment-free environment and you will release a torrent of creativity" -Alex Osborn

[zymurgist]

B.S., Computer Science. I've been in software engineering for 20 years now, and playing with computers and cars for longer than that... in fact, since before computers and cars got hitched.

Why is science not getting the respect it should in this country? My opinions, which are worth what you paid for them...

1. Science is not "cool." When a LeBron James can get an NBA contract to play basketball out of high school, what does this say to kids? Why should they study in school when the really "cool" jobs involve playing sports? This attitude is aided and abetted by state and local governments who spend tax dollars on sports arenas and stadiums while their schools wither on the vine. You want to see some really nice stadiums, come to Baltimore. You want to see horrible schools that the city has been fighting a state takeover, come to Baltimore.

2. Media appeals to the lowest common denominator. There's a reason that right-wing talk shows are dominated by guys like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity rather than by George Will and Robert Novak. The first two guys tell people more or less what they want to hear, and the latter two more or less make reasoned arguments to make their case. It could be a radio versus print thing, as radio requires almost no intellectual involvement (that's why it's popular to listen to while driving a car) while reading an op-ed column requires a vocabulary and some reading comprehension skills. (NB: I don't listen to talk radio of any variety, unless you consider local news radio to be "talk radio.")

3. Although I have not delved deeply into the book, I have read the introduction to Al Gore's "The Assault on Reason" and I agree with some of his points, one of which is that somehow, pseudo-science has been accorded a respectability that it has not earned, considering that said pseudo-science is not subjected to the same rigorous tests that real science is; yet pseudo-science is pushed by people who dress it up as fact and use it to push their partisan agendas. Creationism is a prime example of this... how people can advocate it being taught in science classes, I really can't comprehend.

(Please don't jump all over my case and call me a biased lefty... first, it's not true, and second, if you don't know me personally, you probably won't guess my political leanings. I'm just calling it the way I see it.)

[Borderline]

Before I couldn't even spell ingenear now I are one!! I got my bsme in '73 (yeah old fart). I actually had a one unit class in high performance suspensions and a another in internal combustion engine design.

Over the years I've worked for a bunch of different companies in various fields, but always doing mechanical design: Missile Launching and Handling for Trident missiles, food processing equipment, disk drives, mail opening equipment and my favorite. I designed equipment to put wine in plastic bags and put the bags in boxes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

I played with SCCA road racing for a while and then got away from cars. Now after about 20 years I'm back and am into AX. What I think is interesting is that the suspension talk here is the same as it was 35 years ago: stiffer springs, stiffer anti-roll bars, stiffer shocks, lower car. I know shock technology has changed, but I was expecting some really neat advances in my absence. Anyway, I'm having fun playing with the teener!

[914nerd]

Ken
I actually agree with a lot of that
The public view is that scientists and engineers are nerdy looking people with lab coats on and there is no glamour to the prefession
I would also add to that that there seems to be a prevailing attitude of fear towards science
It is something that many people do not understand and therefore falls into the "black magic" category
I am going into a scientific field (as of yet unknown, but likely physics and something else)
and I currently work in a scientific area
And things are not looking good for the future of our country's scientific community

[jaminM3]

I am in my second year of a mechanical Engineering degree, but I don't know when I will ever finish (I got started 10 years too late). I have been in sales of telecommunications connectivity for 8 years now after initially getting a CNE (Certified Novell Engineer) certification at a tech school.

I have read that one of the largest threats to Engineering job security in this country is the number of Engineering grads in China and India. It is just another job that will be outsourced. Just like IT jobs are starting to be outsourced more and more. I have also heard that a high percentage of corporate CEOs have engineering degrees.

[andys]

I just hired an entry level engineer for my staff. Durring the interview process, there was only one American applicant; the others were all recent foreigh transplants and all requiring H1B work visa's. The least qualified, from an educational perspective, was the American (poor interview too). Best interview and final selection was a young woman from India; BSEE, and MS Bio-Med from UC Irvine. Turns out she is exceeding my expectations.

BTW, I work for a medical device research foundation, so I'm surrounded by scientists which make my perspective a bit skewed in how I view the sciences. I agree that popular influences tend to turn people to make non-scientific career choices. Sports, entertainment, media, etc.....with the money in those fields, it's little wonder. Many in my local area are employed in the entertainment industry; they own the big houses and drive the big cars.

Andys

[914nerd]

Andys, it's all too common a problem
And it's sad because the media people aren't actually contributing anything (other than entertainment, which is of questionable value)
And other countries are beating us out for our own jobs
Part of that is money based as well
Their countries care about education
Ours doesn't
The only way to succeed is to be competitive with everybody and that takes a hell of a lot of hard work (what I am getting ready to really begin this coming year)

[MrZir]

This thread brought me out of lurking. I am an aerospace engineer, working in the defense aerospace industry. I primarily am involved with testing of maintenance planning software for aircraft. I am so glad that I didn't go into software engineering (almost did).

I am between porsches right now. I had a 85.5 944 for a short while at the end of college. Then had kids. Traded the 944 for a minivan. I never forgot the experience of the 944, but in the ensuing years I discovered that the 914 is much more what I am looking for in a driving experience, so I can't wait to start that journey! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[914nerd]

MrZir
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[jhadler]

Physicist by education and by profession. Have worked in "Big Science" most of my nearly 20 year career. From high energy particle accelerators, to experimental space instrumentation, to high power laser radiometry. With a couple-year foray into the fiber optics telcom industry before the bubble (it was good while it lasted).

I have to agree that this country has lost its edge in the science and technical fields. And it's been that way for some time. When NASA projects attracted more attention than multi-felony entertainment personalities, who pull in more in a week than an engineer will make in a year, it was probably 20 years ago. And the media spends more time these days focusing on topics like Paris Hilton and her oh-so-traumatic-jail-time than they do the space program, or genetic research, or medical break throughs, or alternative energy developments, how do you expect a child to respond??? Where is their interest going to be drawn?? Sad...

It is my priority in this life to help my little girl understand the value of intelligent thinking, and to pursue it throughout her life. After that, maybe I'll spend a few minutes trying to get my 914 running...

-Josh2

[AZ914]

Software Engineer by experience...

[Mid_Engine_914]

Wow. So many brainiacs ... is it just coincidence that they all like 914s?

[914nerd]

Josh
It's the few that actually value intellect and teach their children to do the same that are going to keep the scientific community alive
I have always valued this kind of thought, largely in part because of both of my parents (PhD Physicist & PhD Chemist) have instilled those values in me
I find it sad though that the fields I am going to be going into are suffering the way that they are

[zymurgist]

Josh
It's the few that actually value intellect and teach their children to do the same that are going to keep the scientific community alive

Oh my. Isaac Asimov saw this coming. It just might be time to start the Foundation to keep the candle burning through the coming dark age.

I hope not, though. I hope this insanity is temporary.

[jk76.914]

OK. I'll go next...

B.S. Aeronautics and Astronautics- MIT
M.Eng in Manufacturing- Boston University

25 years experience in manufacturing engineering, NPI, quality, and ops management at Northrop, Apollo Computer, HP, Celestica.... plus a handful of startups.

I'm now working in a Federally Funded Research and Development Laboratory, where we have the smartest, most talented group of engineers and machinists I can imagine. We build things that bolt to airplanes and get shot into space.

We're not dull. We're not socially challenged. We're regular family guys and gals who want the same thing out of life that the non-engineers want- finacial security, healthy kids, and a chance for those kids to have it at least 1% better than we do. Plus an occasional cold beer. (beer for us, NOT the kids!)

As for Jake, I get annoyed with the condescending comments he makes about engineers. Apparently, he was burned by one somewhere along the way. I for one happen to think that Jake IS an engineer. A damn good one too. Not the one he sterotypes, but the kind I know and am proud to work with.

I have to go now, the kitchen faucet is leaking, and I must fix it. And I'm not even at my own home. It's quite a burden, you know, being an engineer.

[pin31]

OK. I'll go next...

B.S. Aeronautics and Astronautics- MIT
M.Eng in Manufacturing- Boston University

25 years experience in manufacturing engineering, NPI, quality, and ops management at Northrop, Apollo Computer, HP, Celestica.... plus a handful of startups.

I'm now working in a Federally Funded Research and Development Laboratory, where we have the smartest, most talented group of engineers and machinists I can imagine. We build things that bolt to airplanes and get shot into space.

We're not dull. We're not socially challenged. We're regular family guys and gals who want the same thing out of life that the non-engineers want- finacial security, healthy kids, and a chance for those kids to have it at least 1% better than we do. Plus an occasional cold beer. (beer for us, NOT the kids!)

As for Jake, I get annoyed with the condescending comments he makes about engineers. Apparently, he was burned by one somewhere along the way. I for one happen to think that Jake IS an engineer. A damn good one too. Not the one he sterotypes, but the kind I know and am proud to work with.

I have to go now, the kitchen faucet is leaking, and I must fix it. And I'm not even at my own home. It's quite a burden, you know, being an engineer.

[i][u]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[SharonG]

BS in Mechanical Engineering, University of Colorado

Have worked as a manufacturing, sustaining and design engineer for medical and info storage products for quite a few years!

In terms of teaching our kids the importance of using their brains to fullest potential, look in the mirror for their most important influence (Josh, your daughter has a good influence).

[orange914]

Your poll is going to be completely skewed.

Reason is, Engineers and Scientists are likely to click on a topic like this. Non technical types are not likely be interested enough to click the topic - hence, they will not have the chance to vote 'no'.

So your poll will be skewed and show that percentage wise, there are lots more engineers and scientists than there really are.

Demick
Mechanical Engineer (as if you didn't already guess)

contrair, i voted! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[grantsfo]

Industrial Engineer by training. Business degree as well.

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