Front end neg camber, how much have you got, how'd ya get it Options

[Dave_Darling]

OK, now drop your car into the weeds so that the A-arm points upward slightly toward the outside. You're going to gain even less camber that way than if your car were higher off the ground. (Trade-off: Your car will tend to lean less because of the lower CG.) So you may need more static negative camber to counteract the body lean.

If you can lower the car's CG without shrinking the amount of negative camber gain, you sort of get the best of both worlds: You get reduced body lean and you get a little more negative camber when you do lean. That's one of the many joys of raised spindles...

--DD

[Borderline]

My first attempt to get more negative...my wife says I'm always too negative.

Just poured these yesterday, gotta wait for em to cure up gud.

Chris, thanks for the support plates! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[jhadler]

My first attempt to get more negative...my wife says I'm always too negative.

Just poured these yesterday, gotta wait for em to cure up gud.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Can't wait to hear how they work out!

-Josh2

[Joe Ricard]

Ok so I must have a mental block. if you lower the car to the point where the control arms point up then how do you prevent the shock from bottoming out.

The same thing with raising the spindles the length of the spindle never changed just the hieght of the upper shock mount and the whole car for that matter is lower. What kind of suspension travel is left.

[ottox914]

My first attempt to get more negative...my wife says I'm always too negative.

Just poured these yesterday, gotta wait for em to cure up gud.

Chris, thanks for the support plates! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

That looks interesting. What exactally have you got going on there?

[Joe Ricard]

How plyable is that stuff you poured?
Just asking because if it sets up solid as a rock then you will chance bending your shock piston rod.

If it is too plyable then why bother it will allow the alignment settings to go EVERYWHERE.

[Borderline]

I popped out the stock bushing/rubber grommet and removed the rubber. I then positioned the bushing to the side of the support plate and poured rtv around it to hold it in place. It should be about 80 durometer when fully cured. that stuff was expensive..$54/lb!! not available at Home Depot! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jhadler]

I popped out the stock bushing/rubber grommet and removed the rubber. I then positioned the bushing to the side of the support plate and poured rtv around it to hold it in place. It should be about 80 durometer when fully cured. that stuff was expensive..$54/lb!! not available at Home Depot! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm not an expert, but I think that stuff is just gonna separate from the metal as soon as you apply a load. The original bushings are done like the trailing arm bushings, vulcanized.

Still, if it works, might be pretty nifty.

-Josh2

[Joe Ricard]

We use this stuff called "chock fast"
More on the line of what Josh is talking about.

I would be scared to try the RTV thing unless you did a destructive test on one 1st.
Like what does it take to push/pull/twist that stuff out. If after an hour of beating on it and you can't get it out then make a new one and put them in the car and take the front hood off. go to a parking lot and thrash it. If it stays put then it is maybe OK.

[Borderline]

The RTV thing is a two component polyurethane that cures to about 80 durometer, very similar to the stuff they use for suspension bushings. I used the stuff years ago, it's great stuff!! I'm not worried. I got them installed today and got a little over 2.5* negative. Haven't driven it yet, gotta an AX Sunday!

[ottox914]

Could you take some metal rod of some sort, and weld/attach it to the ID of the camber plate, and to the sides of the strut bushing, then pour the goo in? Would that act a little like rebar in cement, in terms of keeping things togather under load?

Looking at my current front camber plates, they are the Tarrot style, with a spherical bearing solid mounted in an aluminum piece. Could you weld/attach that bearing to the inside of a stock camber plate with the rubber and stock bushing removed, and get the same result?

[Borderline]

Looking at my current front camber plates, they are the Tarrot style, with a spherical bearing solid mounted in an aluminum piece. Could you weld/attach that bearing to the inside of a stock camber plate with the rubber and stock bushing removed, and get the same result?

I thought of something like that but wasn't sure about not having any rubber in the system. I think it was Kevin Groot that posted how important it is to have the rubber grommets in the system unless you have all out racing shocks...which I don't. Is there any rubber in your Tarrot system?

[stownsen914]

Could you take some metal rod of some sort, and weld/attach it to the ID of the camber plate, and to the sides of the strut bushing, then pour the goo in? Would that act a little like rebar in cement, in terms of keeping things togather under load?

The tops of the shocks need to be able move as the suspenion moves through bump and droop. If I read your suggestion correctly, I think you were saying to solidly attach the strut bushing to the camber plate. If you do this, the suspension will bind (and the shock shaft would bend) ...

[ottox914]

Looking at my current front camber plates, they are the Tarrot style, with a spherical bearing solid mounted in an aluminum piece. Could you weld/attach that bearing to the inside of a stock camber plate with the rubber and stock bushing removed, and get the same result?

I thought of something like that but wasn't sure about not having any rubber in the system. I think it was Kevin Groot that posted how important it is to have the rubber grommets in the system unless you have all out racing shocks...which I don't. Is there any rubber in your Tarrot system?

Here is a photo of the camber plates and top bearings.

http://www.paragon-products.com/photos/CM-1300-2.jpg

I'd be interested to read Groot's comments on rubber in the system- not that I don't believe him, but I'd like to learn a bit more and see what his thoughts are and the reasoning behind them. Can you copy the post or add a link to it?

And- had a chance to test your creation yet?

[Borderline]

I did a search but couldn't find the thread here! It was just my recollection from a few months ago. Here's a similar statement made at a different site...strut stoppers

[Chris Pincetich]

Bill - I know I said you can have those camber plates, but I need them back now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Regarding Groot's comments - I'm pretty sure the comment was focussed on bottoming out the struts, and needing the top rubber bump stops (they had another name too) to protect the shock internals, not necessarily for better suspension movement/alignment/properties.

More updates please! How did things go at Marina Sunday?

I work 5 blocks from EASY and have easy acces to buy used 914 parts...if you need another set to play with I could help out with the R&D (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Borderline]

Too late Chris they're mine now!! They seemed to work great! I'm still slow on the Azenis but went 3 seconds faster on the victorocks! I was able to run laps comparable to DanT's!!!!! I don't know why I can't go fast on the azenis. They just don't seem to bite at all.

The overall setup of the car felt really good. No rear sway bar, 22mm T-bars, 19mm frnt sway set pretty stiff and 225# rear springs with the shocks set pretty soft. lower pressure in the victorocks. Dan suggested softer shocks and lower pressures. I was going to go stiffer on the shocks...seemed like what everyone else did. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Chris Pincetich]

I'm pretty sure that going to 2.5 neg camber is something the Victo's will like and the street tires will not. Time for some tire temps!

You may consider running JUST the Victo's in the future if you are not dealing with PCA car class issues. For 914Cup - do whatever seems fair, it's all gud. Those sticky tires will give smaller times and bigger smiles, and having you car set-up for them would be a big plus vs. finding a compromise to use both types of tires.

DIY camber plates are cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)