Wheels and Tires, Let's get this discussion centralized Options

[Pat Garvey]

...And sold.

DIBS!
no need to repaint or rebuild... I'll take it as-is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
seriously.

May want to wait until you see the damage. It will be UGLY. The trip will be no holds barred. Gravel roads? Yep, even if not neceassry. Chips, chunks & other nasty things will be taken as they arrive.

Tslk to me in 3 1/2 years! Then, we'll see how eager you are.
Pat

[Pat Garvey]

When I hit 65...
This trip will be my last venture into 914's. I'll be too old to really make an effort after that. Yes, I will retire from the 914 World.

But that's 3 years away.

Pat

Yo Pat, Life does not end at 65 bro...no reason to give something up that you have enjoyed all your life just because you make a certain age...

At 65 grow a pony tail, start wearing flip flops and hawaiian shirts - year round...take up surfing or...Have you seen the recent movie 'bucket list'? You are our role model and inspiration! We look to you for...the exemplary 914 lifestyle..

Jeff, I'd like to be a male prostitute, but my "six pack" is now a "flab pack". I'd like to do a lot of things, and some of them I'm giving serious thought to. But I think I'm close to running my 914 course! I mean, 37 years is a long time to give to ONE car. Not that I'm compaining, just....maybe it's time to find a new venue.

Maybe.

[tod914]

Yugo's haven't fully reached their due status Pat. Maybe be a trend setter and get one of those.

[Pat Garvey]

Yugo's haven't fully reached their due status Pat. Maybe be a trend setter and get one of those.

Tod,

Thanks, but Yugo get one first! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
Pat

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Pat Garvey]

Yugo's haven't fully reached their due status Pat. Maybe be a trend setter and get one of those.

Tod,

Thanks, but Yugo get one first! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
Pat

Pat ....how about some questions about what makes the wheels stop??
...or is there a specific post on brake systems somewhere here?

I'm trying to collect the parts necessary to get my `73 2L back on the road after being dry stored in my SoCal garage since 5/85 (+/- 24 years!) - both Mech & Body, and my preference is to stay OEM/OES or close to stock.

So I want to post questions on various systems, components & parts here - IF this is the appropriate place, or should I look to other areas on this bbs???
Please let me know if not &/or where I might get more & better responses to a particular topic.

That said, I'm looking at brake stuff this week. - for STREET driving use, without any... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/new_shocked.gif)

A few Brake System Questions, so I can take advantage of Performance Products 15% off sale this week: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

1.) First & Foremost - are Performance Products prices typically good competitive pricing??
....& are their weekly specials & discounts are worth jumping at?

...or can I do better just shopping around? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Dr. 914 - George - feel free to weigh in on your Auto Atlanta stock! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

2.) Brake Pads - OEM or ???? by whom? - STREET use
> which for improved braking?
> which for best life?
> which for least "squeal"?
> which don't have asbestos? (a no-no in CA & PBR has it!)
> ratings for: ATE, Jurid, Textar, Pagid, Mintex, Hawk, PBR, others?

3.) Stainless vs OEM Rubber Brake Lines?
> worth the extra price?
> longer life? ...if so, how much longer lasting?
> what is "shelf life" for each in terms of rubber/teflon/silicone?
...I hope to get them installed in `09, but it might be next year, what with all of the other stuff to be done!
> whose are best? ...Weltmeister? ...others?

4.) Master Cylinders - 914-4's 17mm -or- 914-6's 19mm?? (OEM only)
> 19mm are straight bolt-in substitute - correct?
> any steel lines, connectors or anything else need to be changed with 19mm?
> how much improvement 17 > 19mm? ....& for $45 less @ 19mm!
> any issues, concerns & problems in using 19mm?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> any external rubber lines/parts to also replace on MC's? ...any available in SS?
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current MC which has sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)

5.) Brake Fluids --
> Porsche OEM vs. which others? - for STREET use
> How much do I need for complete change-over & bleeding? - # of oz. or ml & # of cans/bottles?
> what is "shelf life" if left un-opened until rebuild? - +/- 09/2010?

6.) Disk Calipers -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> new vs remanufactured vs "rebuilt"
> are OEM &/or OES now NLA? ...or if still available - where?? Front? & Rear?
> best mfgr source(s) for OEM Re-mans?
> what & where are the retail sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current Calipers which have sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)
> best caliper rebuild kits & mfgrs? ...& is the shelf life of the rubber parts 2009-2010 or more?

7.) 914 Proportioning Valves -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> are OEM &/or OES still available? ...&/or OEM/OES Remans?
> any better alternative p.valves to elim. "spongy pedal"?
> how are the adjustable ones (like JWest)?? ...& how ahrd to adjust to get right for STREET use??
...or are they more of a pain in the A than they're worth????
> what & where are the sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
> I'm not interested in replacing it with a "Tee", cuz it serves the function to prevent real lock-up & resulting spin-out or swapping back-to-front when you have to brake hard!!


Any other Brake System Tips? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


Note that I'll hold off on buying anything without a "safe" shelf life thru 2010, until the actual time I'll be doing the brake system - sale or not! ... just to avoid those (IMG:style_emoticons/default/new_shocked.gif) moments! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've also got the post on researching my 914 where you've replied before - & where I also posted this (but the replies are slow in coming), so I'll try it here too. My other post is at:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=93838&st=0

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Thanx in advance guys & gals!
Tom
///////

Tom,

First, welcome to the mayhem!

Second, you ask a LOT of questions! We like that, though it will take some time to muddle through them. This thread is as good as any other, since it's related.

So.... first I'll wiegh in on something you haven't posed - calipers!

Your 914, since it's been sitting for so long, is most probably going to need the calipers rebuilt before anything else. Unless you are a major wrench, I'd get in contact with Eric Shea for rebuilds. His are the best for funtionality & presence.
Pat

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Pat Garvey]

[quote name='Tom_T' date='Apr 3 2009, 07:03 PM' post='1153754']
[quote name='Pat Garvey' date='Apr 3 2009, 04:25 PM' post='1153730']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1153701' date='Apr 3 2009, 04:38 PM']
[quote name='Pat Garvey' post='1139644' date='Feb 28 2009, 06:20 PM']
[quote name='tod914' post='1139265' date='Feb 27 2009, 09:14 PM']

6.) Disk Calipers -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> new vs remanufactured vs "rebuilt"
> are OEM &/or OES now NLA? ...or if still available - where?? Front? & Rear?
> best mfgr source(s) for OEM Re-mans?
> what & where are the retail sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current Calipers which have sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)
> best caliper rebuild kits & mfgrs? ...& is the shelf life of the rubber parts 2009-2010 or more?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Thanx in advance guys & gals!
Tom
///////
[/quote]
Tom,

First, welcome to the mayhem!

Second, you ask a LOT of questions! We like that, though it will take some time to muddle through them. This thread is as good as any other, since it's related.

So.... first I'll wiegh in on something you haven't posed - calipers!

Your 914, since it's been sitting for so long, is most probably going to need the calipers rebuilt before anything else. Unless you are a major wrench, I'd get in contact with Eric Shea for rebuilds. His are the best for funtionality & presence.
Pat
[/quote]

Thanx for the welcome, but...

Yeah I did list calipers, see the clipped down quote above #6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I just located some rebuilt/reman. L&R front calipers at Perf. Products (supposed to be OEM rebuilds) - if theirs are any good? - ...your opinion??
They had no rear caliper remans. though!

I got the rear rebuild kits just in case, but they're useless if innards are frozen/rusted/pitted! I also got the 19mm MC, 930 tie-rods, balls & bushings, CV boots & other stuff to tie-up their 15% discount (ends 4/4), & will return anything that I don't want. Aslo got 15% off the rear bumper rubber top new, since I bought so much stuff. Would've gotten the front rubber top & "tits" too - if they weren't NLA & other rubber parts if we hadn't run out of time
....geez - that was a "spensive" order!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Where is your guy located? ...I'm in Orange CA (SoCal) ...do you have his contact info?
I'm assuming that he's in the Philly area, since you're near there?

Does he have rear calipers? ...& do I need my old ones for a "core"? ...or do you send him your own calipers to him to rebuild them?

Any other good caliper rebuilders or sources you know of closer to me on the west coast?

Keep in mind that this 914 has it's front & rear ends pushed in - so it's never going to be a "concours" car, but I liked the way it drove before & would like to keep it "true to form" without filing bankruptcy!

Thanx!
Tom

PS - Having been born back there at the other oft forgotten end of the state (PA), my condolences on your Eagles! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
...of course my Steelers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)
///////
[/quote]
Tom, Sorry, missed it.

You should contact Eric at PMB Performance, http://www.pmbperformance.com.
Pat

Eric is based in Sandy, Utah - that's close enough for the best.

Eagles crap out very year - I'm used to it!

[Pat Garvey]

Yugo's haven't fully reached their due status Pat. Maybe be a trend setter and get one of those.

Tod,

Thanks, but Yugo get one first! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
Pat

Pat ....how about some questions about what makes the wheels stop??
...or is there a specific post on brake systems somewhere here?

I'm trying to collect the parts necessary to get my `73 2L back on the road after being dry stored in my SoCal garage since 5/85 (+/- 24 years!) - both Mech & Body, and my preference is to stay OEM/OES or close to stock.

So I want to post questions on various systems, components & parts here - IF this is the appropriate place, or should I look to other areas on this bbs???
Please let me know if not &/or where I might get more & better responses to a particular topic.

That said, I'm looking at brake stuff this week. - for STREET driving use, without any... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/new_shocked.gif)

A few Brake System Questions, so I can take advantage of Performance Products 15% off sale this week: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

1.) First & Foremost - are Performance Products prices typically good competitive pricing??
....& are their weekly specials & discounts are worth jumping at?

...or can I do better just shopping around? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Dr. 914 - George - feel free to weigh in on your Auto Atlanta stock! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

2.) Brake Pads - OEM or ???? by whom? - STREET use
> which for improved braking?
> which for best life?
> which for least "squeal"?
> which don't have asbestos? (a no-no in CA & PBR has it!)
> ratings for: ATE, Jurid, Textar, Pagid, Mintex, Hawk, PBR, others?

3.) Stainless vs OEM Rubber Brake Lines?
> worth the extra price?
> longer life? ...if so, how much longer lasting?
> what is "shelf life" for each in terms of rubber/teflon/silicone?
...I hope to get them installed in `09, but it might be next year, what with all of the other stuff to be done!
> whose are best? ...Weltmeister? ...others?

4.) Master Cylinders - 914-4's 17mm -or- 914-6's 19mm?? (OEM only)
> 19mm are straight bolt-in substitute - correct?
> any steel lines, connectors or anything else need to be changed with 19mm?
> how much improvement 17 > 19mm? ....& for $45 less @ 19mm!
> any issues, concerns & problems in using 19mm?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> any external rubber lines/parts to also replace on MC's? ...any available in SS?
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current MC which has sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)

5.) Brake Fluids --
> Porsche OEM vs. which others? - for STREET use
> How much do I need for complete change-over & bleeding? - # of oz. or ml & # of cans/bottles?
> what is "shelf life" if left un-opened until rebuild? - +/- 09/2010?

6.) Disk Calipers -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> new vs remanufactured vs "rebuilt"
> are OEM &/or OES now NLA? ...or if still available - where?? Front? & Rear?
> best mfgr source(s) for OEM Re-mans?
> what & where are the retail sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current Calipers which have sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)
> best caliper rebuild kits & mfgrs? ...& is the shelf life of the rubber parts 2009-2010 or more?

7.) 914 Proportioning Valves -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> are OEM &/or OES still available? ...&/or OEM/OES Remans?
> any better alternative p.valves to elim. "spongy pedal"?
> how are the adjustable ones (like JWest)?? ...& how ahrd to adjust to get right for STREET use??
...or are they more of a pain in the A than they're worth????
> what & where are the sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
> I'm not interested in replacing it with a "Tee", cuz it serves the function to prevent real lock-up & resulting spin-out or swapping back-to-front when you have to brake hard!!


Any other Brake System Tips? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


Note that I'll hold off on buying anything without a "safe" shelf life thru 2010, until the actual time I'll be doing the brake system - sale or not! ... just to avoid those (IMG:style_emoticons/default/new_shocked.gif) moments! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've also got the post on researching my 914 where you've replied before - & where I also posted this (but the replies are slow in coming), so I'll try it here too. My other post is at:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=93838&st=0

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Thanx in advance guys & gals!
Tom
///////

Now, with the caliper thing aside, I can/will only impart on things I have some/slight knowledge of, by the numbers:
2.) I still use asbestos pads. Stocked up on the in the late 70's because they make no mess & stop the car. Figure I'm the only one left using them, so I'm not going to kill too many people. They work great!

3.) Stick with rubber. Work fine - last years-pedal prssure better.

4.) Go with 19mm. Learned this by mistake, but it works perfectly for a street 914. Way over discussed.

5.) You can't overuse brake fluid for the street, if you change it every 2 years. Use DOT 3 or 4 for street, but any fluid will absorb enough moisture in 2 years to need replacement.

7.) In 37 years of owning the same 914, I've never experienced a problem here, even during years of hard auto-x usage. Leave it alone.

My opinons on the above topics only - YMMV. Just trying to help.
Pat

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Pat Garvey]

Tom, Sorry, missed it.

You should contact Eric at PMB Performance, http://www.pmbperformance.com.
Pat

Eric is based in Sandy, Utah - that's close enough for the best.

Eagles crap out very year - I'm used to it!

Thanx - got him bookmarked! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

Some of my undergrad classmates from USC `70-74 for played at each - Lynn Swan SE at PGH, & Charlie "The Tree" Young TE at Philly, plus Peter Adams (also year ahead at my HS in San Diego) RT/LT at Cleveland. The `SC footballers all used to just shake their heads at us "crazy Rugby players" in the locker room, and stand & stare (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) at our (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) "antics" (as they called them) on their way in from daily practice!

Really appreciate your sage advice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Best!
Tom
///////

Hi Pat,

As noted above, I ordered the L&R Rebuilt calipers from PerfProd, which I will look over with my mechanic once I have them in hand. After their weekly brake system special's 15% discount - the LF caliper was only $38.25 ; & the RF was only $51.99
= +/- $90 total net cost for both L&R front calipers to me - which seemed like a pretty good price - vs. $199 net for $299 - $100 core "on sale" from PMB...

...or is that too low to be a quality job!?
...why are R more than L? ....harder to find cores? ....or harder to do?
...PP lists them as 73-76 - was there a difference from `70-72 front calipers? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If they're not up to snuff, then I'll return them & get with Eric at PMB for the full set. Otherwise I'll get just the rear calipers from PMB, since Perf.Prods. doesn't currently carry the rears (unless I can find another good quality source less than the $350 less $100 core which PMB wants for the L&R pair).

Since I'm looking for a donor parts car anyway for my body work (per my other "Researching History" post), I may be able to also get a set of 4 calipers on it suitable for cores to PMB.

Can you or anyone tell me which years' & engine size's/models' disk calipers are the same as my `73 2L? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I've located one DE or NE/Roller that's a late `72, which may have all of the body parts which I'll need to repair mine -

...so might it's `72 calipers work F &/or R ???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Also - that `72 was a June `72 prod date & with a VIN 472... - but with front bumper tits, was that a Late `72 MY change over thing or aftermarket change?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Thanx in Advance!

All I can say is - "you get what you pay for". Ain't nobody knows brakes better than Eric. And, that is worth some extra money alone.

Tell us what you get from PP. We're all inerested.
Pat

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Pat Garvey]

Tom, Sorry, missed it.

You should contact Eric at PMB Performance, http://www.pmbperformance.com.
Pat

Eric is based in Sandy, Utah - that's close enough for the best.

Eagles crap out very year - I'm used to it!

Thanx - got him bookmarked! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

Some of my undergrad classmates from USC `70-74 for played at each - Lynn Swan SE at PGH, & Charlie "The Tree" Young TE at Philly, plus Peter Adams (also year ahead at my HS in San Diego) RT/LT at Cleveland. The `SC footballers all used to just shake their heads at us "crazy Rugby players" in the locker room, and stand & stare (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) at our (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) "antics" (as they called them) on their way in from daily practice!

Really appreciate your sage advice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Best!
Tom
///////

Hi Pat,

As noted above, I ordered the L&R Rebuilt calipers from PerfProd, which I will look over with my mechanic once I have them in hand. After their weekly brake system special's 15% discount - the LF caliper was only $38.25 ; & the RF was only $51.99
= +/- $90 total net cost for both L&R front calipers to me - which seemed like a pretty good price - vs. $199 net for $299 - $100 core "on sale" from PMB...

...or is that too low to be a quality job!?
...why are R more than L? ....harder to find cores? ....or harder to do?
...PP lists them as 73-76 - was there a difference from `70-72 front calipers? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If they're not up to snuff, then I'll return them & get with Eric at PMB for the full set. Otherwise I'll get just the rear calipers from PMB, since Perf.Prods. doesn't currently carry the rears (unless I can find another good quality source less than the $350 less $100 core which PMB wants for the L&R pair).

Since I'm looking for a donor parts car anyway for my body work (per my other "Researching History" post), I may be able to also get a set of 4 calipers on it suitable for cores to PMB.

Can you or anyone tell me which years' & engine size's/models' disk calipers are the same as my `73 2L? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I've located one DE or NE/Roller that's a late `72, which may have all of the body parts which I'll need to repair mine -

...so might it's `72 calipers work F &/or R ???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Also - that `72 was a June `72 prod date & with a VIN 472... - but with front bumper tits, was that a Late `72 MY change over thing or aftermarket change?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Thanx in Advance!

All I can say is - "you get what you pay for". Ain't nobody knows brakes better than Eric. And, that is worth some extra money alone.

Tell us what you get from PP. We're all inerested.
Pat

Will do..........That's why I was axing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What about the applicability of calipers for pre & post `73???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Shouldn't be a problem. You can mess around with all years, though I don't see a point. Maybe eric could step in here.
Pat

[tod914]

Eric's brake calipers look incredable. I purchased a set from cardone for my 75. Inexpensive, functioned properly, but the paint burned off and they flashed rusted. Being your doing what seems to be a very nice level of resto for your car, ship them off to Eric. They will have beautiful cad plating and look new.

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[TheMirror]

I weighed some wheels this week at a local used Porsche parts distributor. Weights were done on a MyWeigh BCS-80 portable scale. Wheels were weighed without center caps, and consider an error possibility of 0.1 lbs.

4-lug Fuchs - 13.1 lbs.
Early Pedrini - 14.5 lbs.
Late Pedrini - 15.4 lbs.
4-lug Mahle - 13.4 lbs.
Late 4-lug steel - 16.5 lbs.

Cheers,
-Mirror

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[TheMirror]

I weighed some wheels this week at a local used Porsche parts distributor. Weights were done on a MyWeigh BCS-80 portable scale. Wheels were weighed without center caps, and consider an error possibility of 0.1 lbs.

4-lug Fuchs - 13.1 lbs.
Early Pedrini - 14.5 lbs.
Late Pedrini - 15.4 lbs.
4-lug Mahle - 13.4 lbs.

Cheers,
-Mirror

Interesting that the Fuchs 2.0 Alloys are the lightest of the group!
Any idea of what the Rivieras come in at?

I didn't see any on the racks there, but I'll ask next time I'm down and I'll weigh one if they have one.

Cheers,
-Mirror