Wheels and Tires, Let's get this discussion centralized Options

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Tom_T]

TIRE SAFETY - AGE & MANUFACTURE DATE

OK - Tire Safety seems an appropriate subject here as well, since I'm seeing folks trying to sell NOS tires at Samba, eBay, etc. - as well as some Tire Shops selling out of their old stock - some of which may NOT be safe!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

Here are some websites which show the DOT required serial number / date code & how to read it, and some recent articles & info. on NHTSA & DOT recommendations for when to toss - OR DECLINE TO BUY - those older tires. Use this to check your old tires on the car, when you look at those online for sale, & even those in the Tire shop or the vaunted Coker & other vintage tire suppliers!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tec...e.jsp?techid=11
http://www.aa1car.com/library/tire_expire.htm
http://www.ehow.com/how_4621263_read-tire-date-codes.html

The bottom line is that rubber ages, cracks & becomes "...unsafe at any speed!" (poor Corvair - another great car, esp 66-69), so DOT & NHTSA had been recommending use up to 10 years, but recently changed that advice down to 6 years, which matches long time Euro-country requirements.

Pat - yours noted above for show are long gone - no need to check, just don't drive around on them! ...put them on at the grounds, & drive on new ones. Same thing for others with "original tires" of 20-35+ years old.

So if your buying new, or assessing that online "deal" - get the date stamp, figure your typical annual mileage x how many years to get to 6 years (or 10 years tops if you want to play the odds on a performance car) from the manufacture date coded on them. Most reputable tires dealers today will say 5-7 years is the max. you should drive them, so that means low mileage & driven garage queens - or little princesses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) - will need new tires long before they're tread worn!

For New Tires from a store/online dealer (Coker et al) - I wouldn't pay them for anything older than 2 years myself - because I expect new tires from a store - not NOS, & due to the maximum period for which the manufacturers are required to warranty them after the sale &/or manufacture date (see links 1 & 2 for that info.)

Also, make sure that they're the proper speed rating for your 914 engine size & speed capability, as per the tag on your gas tank's expansion tank by the filler:
914-4 2.0L - HR or better - i.e.: VR + good, but TR, SR, R (non-rated) = bad
914-4 1.7L - SR or better - HR, VR +
914-4 1.8L - varied SR or HR or better, per your tag

914/6 guys & gals - step in here, as I don't know..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
( I recall seeing 185VR15s somewhere for them??)

Hope this is helpful to somebody!
....& keeps folks safe on the road too!!!!! ....well, okay, as safe as any Teener Nut can be anyway! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

For example, here are still deep tread Kleber 165HR15s which have sat in my garage for 26-28 years, which look good at first glance, but closer inspection of the sidewalls & between the tread lugs show small hairline cracks which would open up & disintegrate at road speed!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

[Porsche Rescue]

Thanks Tom. Very educational and interesting. My new Vredestein Sprint Classics (155SRx15 as per the sticker on my '70) were installed last week. Code indicates manufacture in 27th week of 08. My "new" tires are about a year old! I am guessing that is not unusual.

[tod914]

Jim they seem reasonably priced. How do you like them?

[Porsche Rescue]

All I can say is I like their looks! I haven't driven on them yet but should be able to in a day or two. Finalizing some other work on the car now.
You probably would want the 165's for a '74 and I think they cost quite a bit more ($109) but are H rated. They also make the Sprint + but it is not speed rated. I got them here.
http://www.vredesteintire.com/products/SPRST.asp

[Tom_T]

I weighed some wheels this week at a local used Porsche parts distributor. Weights were done on a MyWeigh BCS-80 portable scale. Wheels were weighed without center caps, and consider an error possibility of 0.1 lbs.

4-lug Fuchs - 13.1 lbs.
Early Pedrini - 14.5 lbs.
Late Pedrini - 15.4 lbs.
4-lug Mahle - 13.4 lbs.

Cheers,
-Mirror

Interesting that the Fuchs 2.0 Alloys are the lightest of the group!
Any idea of what the Rivieras come in at?

I didn't see any on the racks there, but I'll ask next time I'm down and I'll weigh one if they have one.

Cheers,
-Mirror

RIVIERA AFTERMARKET ALLOY WHEELS - AND.....
PROOF OF A FULL SET OF 5 OE FUCHS 2.0 ALLOYS AS A "STANDARD OPTION" ON ALL 1973 MY 914-2.0/"914S" MODELS

Mirror - since you're doing this for a data base, I don't want any confusion on my question above.

BTW - the Rivieras were NOT OE on any 914s, but instead were one of the most popular AFTERMARKET wheels.

So I'm just curious as to whether they had any weight &/or strength advantages or disadvantages over what was stock.
...anyone else with weight & strength expertise? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I'm also not sure if they were really noticeably cheaper than Porsche wheels - e.g.: I read somewhere that a set of 5 of the stock OE Fuchs 2.0 Alloys seemed to run about $209 in 73/74 (or about $42 a wheel) on the window stickers for some, but then again - Jeff Bowlsby's PCA 914 SIG webpage for 914 options lists the M485 Alloy Wheels + 165HR15 tires (5 set) as $799 with tires - certainly worth a "strip & resell" game for the dealers!
...anyone have a period receipt for Rivieras of the day showing cost??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

In my 73 914-2.0's case - I bought it 12/26/75 about 38 months after first sold in CA on 11/9/72 (I pretty sure I'm 2nd owner unless P.O. fibbed), and it was outfitted with 4 brushed aluminum finish Rivieras (rather than the more common polished variety) & a "Mag Style" Steelie at the spare (see pix below).

My guess without yet having found a way now to track down the seller P.O./first owner again to confirm this, is that the Dealer had replaced the 5 Fuchs 2L Alloys which were "standard upgrades" (so to speak) on the 73 2Ls, with the possibly cheaper 4 Rivieras & a "free" steelie from another 914 which they probably "upgraded" with my 914's Fuchs!

EARLY 1973 PORSCHE+AUDI DEALER 914 MARKETING BROCHURE - DETAIL OF "914S" UPGRADES PAGE ("914s" = 914-2.0 AT THAT POINT)



^ Note the OE Finish on these is Polished or Semi-Polished at the Rim & "Windmill Paddles", with a Matte Finish on the background area - ALL are a "Silver" - or more correctly - "Natural Aluminum" in color for both finishes, with the Anodized protective coating as noted above by Pat Garvey for the entire wheel (since anodizing dunks the entire wheel in the vat). I'm not sure of the finish on the 4 Lug Bolts, but they appear to be either silver painted or a natural steel finish - not chromed. Since this is from the first Porsche+Audi 914 marketing brochure to show these Alloys, it at least represents their initial finishes for the early 1973 MY.


Since mine was an early 2L (VIN 4732901954 & Engine # GA000424 - i.e.: the 424th 2.0 built), it was subject to the BO Recall for early 1973 2.0s with Alloy Wheels VIN 4732900021 to 4732908173. So perhaps the dealer could've collected up to $1739 for the 5 wheel recall/replacement, replaced the wheels on mine with less expensive 4 Rivieras & 1 Steelie, then resold at least the set of 5 Alloys originally intended for mine at $799, as well as perhaps also reselling the 5 "wrong" early Fuchs 2.0 Alloys+Tires for an earlier 70-72 914 without the self-centering hubs for additional $799 profit - rather than returning them to the distributor as required (see the P+A recall letters to the dealers on the 914 SIG webpage at the link below)! Since mine sold new on 11/9/72, & the BO recall letters went out about a month later on 12/8/72 - mine would've been an after sale recall notice to the first owner to bring it back in for the work, and could've been done by the selling dealer or any other dealer.

In rough figures for the above - said dealer could generate cashflow in the range of $1740 + $800 + $800 = $3340 of ALL PROFIT - or 3/4s the retail value of a new 73 1.7L - & probably the equivalent of having sold 3-6 914s at a 10-20% profit each!!!! ...and they could do this whether they originally sold the 914, or whether another dealer did so! Ergo, the dealer's motivation for doing this "strip the Alloys" game - especially in these early HO recall cars!

And the "steal/swap the spare" game would be lucrative in later years, especially considering that the M485 option's $799 price tag would've risen from 73-76 as did everything else, again about equal to their profit margin on selling a new 914!!!! ...and then they'd only be selling "incomplete" sets of 4 alloys for those "optional upgrades" on other 914s - presumably for the `73 1.7Ls & `74-76 1.8Ls & later `74-76 2.0Ls where the Fuchs Alloys were an added cost option - instead of "included" on the `73 2.0/"914S" models!!!

FYI for all early 1973 914 owners with the M485 Option's Alloy Wheel & 155SR15 or 165HR15 "Sport Tires" (on 1.7L models I presume), there was also another BH wheel recall for Alloys Wheels on VIN 4732902489 to 4732903800. I'm not sure whether this was for some of all of the 4-Lug Fuchs 2L, Mahle &/or Pedrini Alloys available in that model year as an option.

These recalls involved the lack of an inset on the inside face of the Alloys to receive the "new for 73" self-centering front brake disk/hubs, which have a rim that sticks out a few mm from the face around the center hub hole (see pix at link).

All or most 914 Recalls for all years & models are listed on the webpage below, along with the actual VW/Porsche+Audi Letters to dealers on these recalls at the image links in the 1-2 column(s) to the right. I think that they were complied by Jeff Bowlsby on the PCA 914 SIG website, & are an excellent resource.

http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/Recalls.htm

Also note that the BH & BO recall letters at that webpage consistently refer to inspecting all 5 of the full set of 5 alloys. Ergo, at least for the 1973 MY the Alloy wheels options were a set of 5 Alloys - NOT 4 Alloys + Steel Spare! Since the M485 option could apply to the new 4 Lug Mahle, Pedrini & Fuchs 2L Alloys, this was apparently SOP to have 5 Alloys in all cases up to that point, & perhaps for 74-76 as well. So anyone missing 1 spare or all 5 Alloys was ripped off by the dealer!!!!

Here's what I got in 12/75 on my used 73 2L instead of a full set of 5 of the "new for 1973 2Ls" Fuchs 2L Alloys. The steelie spare still has an OE or early replacement Semperit M266 STT V1 steel/rayon radial 165HR15 (mfgd. in Republic of Ireland), and the Rivieras still have the last 1983 set of Kleber V12 165SR15 steel/rayon radials (yup - wrong speed rating for a 9142L!). FYI - Kleber is a subsidiary of Michelin & still in existence.

AFTERMARKET (not OE) c.1972-75 5-SPOKE 4-LUG RIVIERA WITH ORIGINAL PLASTI-CHROME CENTER CAP - BRUSHED ALUMINUM FINISH & SATIN BLACK BACKGROUND-CENTER



1983 KLEBER V12 165SR15 TREAD PATTERN - STILL DEEP ENOUGH BUT UNSAFE AT 26+ YEARS



^ Kleber Tread appears similar to Vredstiens of today.

I hope this info helps on a number of questions here! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tom_T]

I've chosen to go w/ the OEM gambit- "Dunlop SP 57" 165HR15 was my original tire. "Dunlop SP Sport A2+" 195/65HR15 is what she'll have in Charolette. Both are HR rated & both are the "SP" model from Dunlop. I am planning on bringing my Kardex, Bill of Sale & COA to Charolette, as required? Should I bring my old "SP57" as well?

FYI - In my researching on OEM replacements available today, I spoke with the folks at Continental's USA HQ, and the Dunlops are NO LONGER a Tire Manufacturer on their own anymore. Apparently their brand name has been divided up amongst several Tire Mfgr. conglomerates worldwide, with Goodyear branding some of their tires as "Dunlop" for the USA/North America, while Continental owns the "Dunlop brand name" & badges tires as such in Euro-country!

So sorry to say - but your "..."Dunlop SP Sport A2+" 195/65HR15..." show tires noted above are really Goodyears! ....other CWs will need to answer whether that matters.

It is an ironic homage to the poor 914 though, that you have a lost & formerly vaunted tire name on your 914 - also an orphan of the Porsche AG! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tom_T]

OK - I've gone thru all 9 pages of this thread to make sure I'm not repeating myself here (a half-zymers thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ), since I'd posted stuff on correct period tire sources available nowadays, probably on another tires post/thread here.

There are several sources out there for the 155 & 165 x15 tires, Vredstiens being the most common, plus Michelins & Pirelli has come back out with their retro CN36s again too. Some sources below are in Great Britain & Europe - which would be "Grey Market", but they may be able to sell USA DOT approved versions, &/or you could take these to your local Tire Store to special order for you in the USA DOT approved versions.

These would all be manufactured with modern rubber compounds, belts, etc., but using the older style treads - many of which were pretty "sticky"at the time - for old style "skinny" tires. Ergo, these modern versions should perform even better - if not up to the low profile extra wide performance tires available today.

I won't include the sources for 195s again here though, since they're more readily available, and are already at my other Tires thread somewhere else here on 914world's Originality Forums. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Here are Pix of what I've found available online, as of Spring 2009:

MICHELIN XAS 165HR15


PIRELLI CA67 & CN36


PIRELLI CN36 165HR65


VREDSTIEN SPRINT CLASSIC 165HR15


Here are Links to Tire Sales websites selling the 165x15 & 155x15 Tires:
Pirellis in USA:
http://www.lucasclassictires.com/PIRELLI_OPEN.html

http://www.universaltire.com/

http://www.performanceplustire.com/product...HR15#prodAnchor

https://store.coker.com/165hr15-vredestein-...kwall-tire.html

http://www.vredesteintire.com/products/SPRST.asp
http://www.vredesteintire.com/products/SPRIN.asp


GB Source for Michelin & Pirelli, etc.:
http://www.borrani.co.uk/Special_Tyre_Offer.php
http://www.longstonetires.com/radial.php
http://www.longstonetires.com/Special_Offer.php
http://www.longstonetires.com/productPage....p;productID=739
http://www.longstonetires.com/productPage....name=radial.php


Here are some options for vintage tires by our 356 Bretheren:
http://www.356registry.com/forum/viewtopic...707b261199b26a1
http://www.356registry.com/forum/viewtopic...a51a07ed95f6cf9


Also - I've collected a few period 72-74 Road & Track, Motor Trend & Car and Driver magazines recently, in the research for my own 73 914-2.0, which have many tire ads which I'll try to photograph & post here when I get a chance to do so later on.

Hope this is useful to those looking for OE size tires!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tom_T]

Thanks Tom. Very educational and interesting. My new Vredestein Sprint Classics (155SRx15 as per the sticker on my '70) were installed last week. Code indicates manufacture in 27th week of 08. My "new" tires are about a year old! I am guessing that is not unusual.

Jim, that's about 1st week of July 08....or 11 months old +/-

Given that these 155 & 165 sizes are nowadays special order & low volume tires, that's not bad at all. Even the "modern sizes" of 185/70-75x15 & 195/60-65x15 would show some "age" at a local tire dealer, due to shipping from the factory then to the shops, & time to sell a particular tire - they could be 6-24 months from date of manufacture until sold at a shop/dist. ctr.

But more than that is NOT worth buying as "new" nor even NOS - at least not without a huge discount for clearing old stock for them).

Those tire age dating websites which I listed also say that the warranty period varies as to whether you have your receipt or not, as follows:

"Most tire manufacturer's warranties cover their tires for four years from the date of purchase or five years from the week the tires were manufactured"

So keep your receipt so that they're warrantied for the longest possible time, given the above. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[EdwardBlume]

Nankang and Kumho - 165 80 15s

http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw-tires-1-198.html

[Tom_T]

Nankang and Kumho - 165 80 15s

http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw-tires-1-198.html

Keep in mind that neither of those are speed rated. Typically a minimum speed rating of SR (up to 112mph) is required/recommended for 1.7/1.8, & HR (up to 130mph) for 2.0, & I think I've seen elsewhere that VR (149mph) is used for the 914/6 with 185VR14 - as the factory specs. ...no penalties for going higher to say a VR on a 914-4 though! ...unless the CW point counters do so! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

See how to read sidewalls, along with all speed ratings in the chart at the bottom of this Continental Tire web page (search "speed rating" at their main site if this link won't work):
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/...idewall_en.html

BTW All - I've never seen a Snow, M&S or such winter tire rated higher than SR - probably because speeds over 100mph in the snow & ice is highly inadvisable!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[tod914]

Ok, I'm seeing lots of different aspect ratios for replacements for the 165x15 tires. Which would be the "most" correct or perfect size match; width & height?
Any conclussions for the best performance tire while maintianing the correct size of 165x15 to put on a 914?

[Tom_T]

Ok, I'm seeing lots of different aspect ratios for replacements for the 165x15 tires. Which would be the "most" correct or perfect size match; width & height?
Any conclussions for the best performance tire while maintianing the correct size of 165x15 to put on a 914?

Tod,

The originals were 165(/80)HR15 on 2.0s & 155(/80 or 85)SR15 on the 1.7/1.8s, which I believe is what the Vredsteins & other current 165 & 155 offerings are at. Back in those days they never listed nor put on the tire sidewalls, the profile (ht. to w. ratio) of tires, which I recall only started in the late 70's or early 80s (ergo the preceding being in parentheses).

However, even my 1983 Kleber V12 165SR15s don't list the profile. And yes - that's wrong speed rating for my 2L, but that was all that was available except $200 165VR15 Bridgestones then - very pricey in 83!.

The 914world Tire calculator at the link below will calculate the running size differences in those OE sizes - with today's choices, but only in terms of speedo error, etc. - not in terms of road handling.

http://www.914world.com/specs/tirecalc.php

The 165/80x15 "zero's out" in that calculator, so my "half-zymer's memory" is correct on the 165/80, but there's NO stock 155 tire in the top drop-down menu to check against for OE size for 1.7's & 1.8's spec. tires. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

> NOTE TO WHOMEVER MAINTAINS THE TIRE SIZE CALCULATOR - PLEASE ADD THE OE 155X15 TIRE SIZE FOR THE 1.7/1.8 914s OUT THERE! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)
- BTW - mine is a 2L, so I'm suggesting this for others.

Members here & other owners can best provide the road handling input, since MT, R&T, C&D, etc. don't test these "older size/profile" tires anymore.

Although, you could get old period issues online with road tests of them (Oldmag.com, etc.), but they wouldn't equate to today's makers nor materials & tread patterns. I have some of those old mags., but unless those publishers give a release for posting such vintage articles, we cannot post them here (scans/pix), & probably similarly for even the tire makers vintage ads (although Bowlsby has some on the PCA 914 SIG site).

ALSO - I understood from the tire suppliers back in the 80s & from what I'm seeing/reading now, you may have to "roll the fenders" in order to fit anything over 185s on the 914, or risk tearing them up on the sidewalls.
> Anyone have confirmation or input on this fender vs. tire issue? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

FYI for those who are unfamiliar with the term "rolling the fenders" - that was taking a baseball bat, pipe or similar to carefully roll along the inner fender flange (part of body sheet metal at the 914 fenders which turns in towards the wheels) - primarily at the top of the arch in the rear fenders & often all around at fronts (due to wheel turning action), in order to slowly push the flange up against the fender body panel's inner face, in order to make more clearance room & eliminate the sharp unfinished edge as a sidewall cutting risk. But I don't know if doing that causes problems as a modification for the CW & show types??
> Anyone have confirmation or input on this CW issue? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Hope this helps! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Porsche Rescue]

Very few manufacturers make the "correct" size. Vredenstein (made in Holland) is one. Also Michelin available from Coker tire. There are at least two manfacturers of "budget" modern tires, Kuhmo and Nanking(not sure that is correct, but close) who make 165/80x15. They are not speed rated but I believe they are perfectly safe for any 914. If you want more of a modern performance tire with more choices you have to go to 195/65x15. They are very close to stock diameter but not exact.
As Tom says, use the tire calculator to see the difference.

[Tom_T]

Very few manufacturers make the "correct" size. Vredenstein (made in Holland) is one. Also Michelin available from Coker tire. There are at least two manfacturers of "budget" modern tires, Kuhmo and Nanking(not sure that is correct, but close) who make 165/80x15. They are not speed rated but I believe they are perfectly safe for any 914. If you want more of a modern performance tire with more choices you have to go to 195/65x15. They are very close to stock diameter but not exact.
As Tom says, use the tire calculator to see the difference.

Tod & Jim

There are also the Pirelli 165HR15s at the links I provided above - which they've reintroduced over the past year, as well as Lucas at those links with the Pirellis also handle the Michelin XAS etc. too I believe.

Check with your local Pirelli & Michelin dealers to see if they can special order them for you & at what prices. Let us all know back here what you find out on those. You can probably bargain better with your local shop for a deal in this economy, rather than just taking whatever the online prices are now. They're all hungry for business to stay afloat, & usually appreciate the local patronage!

As for the non-rated budget tires, I'd stay away from them since they're not built to withstand the type of lateral forces which 914s can generate, even in "normal" (for a 914) street driving. That's why Porsche spec'd it that way!

I've had the hairy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) experience of a new set of the "wrong" Michelins disintegrate on me on the freeway at 70mph in my `88 VW Vanagon CamplerGL (Westfalia), after they didn't tell me that the proper tires had been discontinued. I had my 2 then small kids in the car then too when they blew out! Westy's don't corner fast like a 914, but they're tall, narrow track, have skinny 185/75x15 tires carrying 4500+ lbs loaded, & therefore beat the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) out of tires. We've stepped up to light truck/RV tires on it now for safety

Also at Bowlsby's 914 SIG site link below, they list several optional OE tire setups, one of which was 185/75VR15 & I've seen it as 185/70VR15 & in the HR variety too somewhere else.
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/OpEq.htm

There are some of those 185s around today too, so you could look at those since the 185/70x15 is only 0.8% fast, or the 185/75x15 is only 2.1% slow (according to the tire calculator).

Whereas the now common 195/65x15 is double the former's error at 1.6% fast. I also seem to recall that the 195s require rolling the fenders, as well as the fronts rubbing on the inner wheel wells when you're close to the stops. That was why I ended up sticking with the "wrong" 165SR15 Klebers back in the early 1980's! ...although those could've been for the taller 195/70 or 75 sizes which were out then, but are rare now?

However, I don't know if the CW police ding you for having that type of "period upgrade" if it wasn't originally on the car? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Who wants to tip-toe around corners in a 914!? ...get the proper tires & (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) it!

[Tom_T]

FYI - A TIRE AD FROM MY COPY OF ROAD & TRACK FEB 1973 (The one with their "914/2 Road Test" article)



BTW - Don't expect those prices today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) , nor try calling them or driving over there - I think they're long gone!

[Pat Garvey]

Ok, I'm seeing lots of different aspect ratios for replacements for the 165x15 tires. Which would be the "most" correct or perfect size match; width & height?
Any conclussions for the best performance tire while maintianing the correct size of 165x15 to put on a 914?

Tod,

The originals were 165(/80)HR15 on 2.0s & 155(/80 or 85)SR15 on the 1.7/1.8s, which I believe is what the Vredsteins & other current 165 & 155 offerings are at. Back in those days they never listed nor put on the tire sidewalls, the profile (ht. to w. ratio) of tires, which I recall only started in the late 70's or early 80s (ergo the preceding being in parentheses).

However, even my 1983 Kleber V12 165SR15s don't list the profile. And yes - that's wrong speed rating for my 2L, but that was all that was available except $200 165VR15 Bridgestones then - very pricey in 83!.

The 914world Tire calculator at the link below will calculate the running size differences in those OE sizes - with today's choices, but only in terms of speedo error, etc. - not in terms of road handling.

http://www.914world.com/specs/tirecalc.php

The 165/80x15 "zero's out" in that calculator, so my "half-zymer's memory" is correct on the 165/80, but there's NO stock 155 tire in the top drop-down menu to check against for OE size for 1.7's & 1.8's spec. tires. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

> NOTE TO WHOMEVER MAINTAINS THE TIRE SIZE CALCULATOR - PLEASE ADD THE OE 155X15 TIRE SIZE FOR THE 1.7/1.8 914s OUT THERE! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)
- BTW - mine is a 2L, so I'm suggesting this for others.

Members here & other owners can best provide the road handling input, since MT, R&T, C&D, etc. don't test these "older size/profile" tires anymore.

Although, you could get old period issues online with road tests of them (Oldmag.com, etc.), but they wouldn't equate to today's makers nor materials & tread patterns. I have some of those old mags., but unless those publishers give a release for posting such vintage articles, we cannot post them here (scans/pix), & probably similarly for even the tire makers vintage ads (although Bowlsby has some on the PCA 914 SIG site).

ALSO - I understood from the tire suppliers back in the 80s & from what I'm seeing/reading now, you may have to "roll the fenders" in order to fit anything over 185s on the 914, or risk tearing them up on the sidewalls.
> Anyone have confirmation or input on this fender vs. tire issue? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

FYI for those who are unfamiliar with the term "rolling the fenders" - that was taking a baseball bat, pipe or similar to carefully roll along the inner fender flange (part of body sheet metal at the 914 fenders which turns in towards the wheels) - primarily at the top of the arch in the rear fenders & often all around at fronts (due to wheel turning action), in order to slowly push the flange up against the fender body panel's inner face, in order to make more clearance room & eliminate the sharp unfinished edge as a sidewall cutting risk. But I don't know if doing that causes problems as a modification for the CW & show types??
> Anyone have confirmation or input on this CW issue? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Hope this helps! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My original Continental spare is a 165/15 380, for what it's worth.

Also, for what it's worth, I've run 195/60 Yoko A008R's with no modifications & no rubbing.

Still undecided as to what tires to put on the car, but I WILL NOT play the game with remoulded Michelins. There comes a time when safety is paramount over orginality. Yes, I said that!
Pat

[Porsche Rescue]

I rejected the Michelins due to excessive price. But I don't understand how they can be any less safe than they were 40 years ago. I don't recall any more catastrophic tire failure of quality radials in 1970 than in 2009. Our light weight four cylinder cars certainly don't need the tires required on my '06 Carerra.

[Tom_T]

[quote name='Pat Garvey' date='Jun 7 2009, 06:32 PM' post='1177744']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1176564' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:41 PM']
[quote name='tod914' post='1176510' date='Jun 4 2009, 10:10 AM']

ALSO - I understood from the tire suppliers back in the 80s & from what I'm seeing/reading now, you may have to "roll the fenders" in order to fit anything over 185s on the 914, or risk tearing them up on the sidewalls.
> Anyone have confirmation or input on this fender vs. tire issue? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

FYI for those who are unfamiliar with the term "rolling the fenders" - that was taking a baseball bat, pipe or similar to carefully roll along the inner fender flange (part of body sheet metal at the 914 fenders which turns in towards the wheels) - primarily at the top of the arch in the rear fenders & often all around at fronts (due to wheel turning action), in order to slowly push the flange up against the fender body panel's inner face, in order to make more clearance room & eliminate the sharp unfinished edge as a sidewall cutting risk. But I don't know if doing that causes problems as a modification for the CW & show types??
> Anyone have confirmation or input on this CW issue? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Hope this helps! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
[/quote]
My original Continental spare is a 165/15 380, for what it's worth.

Also, for what it's worth, I've run 195/60 Yoko A008R's with no modifications & no rubbing.

Still undecided as to what tires to put on the car, but I WILL NOT play the game with remoulded Michelins. There comes a time when safety is paramount over orginality. Yes, I said that!
Pat
[/quote]

Thanx for the input on the 195s Pat.

I suspect that the early 1985s during the late 1970s & early 1980s were a taller profile of perhaps 195/70 - 80 x 15, & therefore stuck out further to rub when wheels were turned to the locks.

I'm sure that the OE 165 & 155 Michelins are just as safe as they ever were, if not a bit better with current rubber compounds. I just think that at $200-300+ per tire, they're waaaaay over priced for what you get! Heck - they were only $37 in that 1973 ad I posted above! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

However, those 195/60HR15s probably stick like glue!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[edit] PS - That 37+ year old Conti spare is pretty much worthless today, so I hope you're not relying on that if you get a flat!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Tom_T]

I rejected the Michelins due to excessive price. But I don't understand how they can be any less safe than they were 40 years ago. I don't recall any more catastrophic tire failure of quality radials in 1970 than in 2009. Our light weight four cylinder cars certainly don't need the tires required on my '06 Carerra.

They're not less safe per tire today, for the specified use. ...proper specified use & tire for your particular vehicle being the operative word. My "off spec dangers" example up above was not for a 914.

The "disintegrating tires" I was referring to above, were some 8 ply (6 sidewall + 2 tread) Michelins which they had specifically made for the 85-91 Vanagons & Westfalia's to withstand the high side-forces generated on a tall & narrow track & heavy van running on skinny tires.

Rather than tell me that the proper OES spec'd tire was discontinued by Michelin & letting me make an intelligent choice, the tire shop substituted lesser quality passenger car tires which Michelin had listed as the "new replacement" - which had a far less stiff 4 ply (2+2) radial that flexed a lot more & eventually blew themselves out due to flex & resultant heat!!!

It was the subject of a big NHTSA & DOT recall campaign against Michelin & VW back in the early/mid-1990s!

So - no worries on those Michelins in the proper size & speed rating, but I agree that they're way too high $$$ for what they are, & the Pirellis are too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)