Wheels and Tires, Let's get this discussion centralized Options

[Tom_T]

OK CWs out there -

....what about splitting the difference between the "stock" 165(/80)HR15 (or SR) or 155(/80)SR15 - & - the 195/65HR-VR15 (195/60 in Pat's case)?

would the CW judges ding a car for having the 185/70 or 185/75 x15 in either HR or VR speed rating, since it was an optional factory upgrade???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

914 SIG Options shows:
"M471 - 914/6 GT Equipment-Steel flares, 6Jx15 Alloy wheels with 185/75VR15 tires, 5.5Jx15 Alloy wheels with 165HR15 tires, 66mm wheel bolts, 21mm wheel spacers front and rear"

If they still ding you - is PCA saying that ONLY the tires as spec'd on your tire label &/or Munroney window sticker etc. is acceptable??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[Jasfsmith]

OK CWs out there -

....what about splitting the difference between the "stock" 165(/80)HR15 (or SR) or 155(/80)SR15 - & - the 195/65HR-VR15 (195/60 in Pat's case)?

would the CW judges ding a car for having the 185/70 or 185/75 x15 in either HR or VR speed rating, since it was an optional factory upgrade???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

914 SIG Options shows:
"M471 - 914/6 GT Equipment-Steel flares, 6Jx15 Alloy wheels with 185/75VR15 tires, 5.5Jx15 Alloy wheels with 165HR15 tires, 66mm wheel bolts, 21mm wheel spacers front and rear"

If they still ding you - is PCA saying that ONLY the tires as spec'd on your tire label &/or Munroney window sticker etc. is acceptable??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

They do and have in the past. The correct CW tire is one that matches the factory tire size designation (check your owners manual and tire size stickers) and is period correct, for THAT vehicle and MY. I learned the hard way on my "SIX" at the Portland Parade. I had a contemporary tire and was dinged. Correctly so, as the emphasis of the judging leans towards originality and condition. I opted for a set of the Michelin XAS 165H15 since. I have been surprised at how many positive comments I receive about running the period correct tires at various shows ( and not just from judges). People looking for originality expect the tires to just one more component to be considered.

Having run both contemporary profile and original (currently) I can truly say that I like the ride of the original better.

As to Pat's safety concern, I say BUNK! All tires for sale are required to meet current day DOT requirements regardless of moulding.

[Tom_T]

OK CWs out there -

....what about splitting the difference between the "stock" 165(/80)HR15 (or SR) or 155(/80)SR15 - & - the 195/65HR-VR15 (195/60 in Pat's case)?

would the CW judges ding a car for having the 185/70 or 185/75 x15 in either HR or VR speed rating, since it was an optional factory upgrade???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

914 SIG Options shows:
"M471 - 914/6 GT Equipment-Steel flares, 6Jx15 Alloy wheels with 185/75VR15 tires, 5.5Jx15 Alloy wheels with 165HR15 tires, 66mm wheel bolts, 21mm wheel spacers front and rear"

If they still ding you - is PCA saying that ONLY the tires as spec'd on your tire label &/or Munroney window sticker etc. is acceptable??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

They do and have in the past. The correct CW tire is one that matches the factory tire size designation (check your owners manual and tire size stickers) and is period correct, for THAT vehicle and MY. I learned the hard way on my "SIX" at the Portland Parade. I had a contemporary tire and was dinged. Correctly so, as the emphasis of the judging leans towards originality and condition. I opted for a set of the Michelin XAS 165H15 since. I have been surprised at how many positive comments I receive about running the period correct tires at various shows ( and not just from judges). People looking for originality expect the tires to just one more component to be considered.

Having run both contemporary profile and original (currently) I can truly say that I like the ride of the original better.

As to Pat's safety concern, I say BUNK! All tires for sale are required to meet current day DOT requirements regardless of moulding.

So James - does that mean any period tire maker only for mfgr?

...or only those supplied OES on the 914s in 70-76 - e.g.: Dunlop, Continental, Michelin & maybe Semperit & Pirelli? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

...and Vredstein is not acceptable as a "modern maker"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

...or is it just the size & speed rating only by any maker? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I agree with the 165s vs. "fatties" giving a better ride - cuz the bigger tires have larger mass/weight & therefore more resistance in rolling inertia, as well as the lower profile tires transmitting more road bumps etc.!

Other stock/street 914s which I've driven with the 195s seemed slower to get going (esp. 1.7s) & not a quick turning. ...of course, that's aside from the souped up versions & AXs!

I wonder what PCA would do if NOBODY made the old sizes any more???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Jasfsmith]

They do and have in the past. The correct CW tire is one that matches the factory tire size designation (check your owners manual and tire size stickers) and is period correct, for THAT vehicle and MY. I learned the hard way on my "SIX" at the Portland Parade. I had a contemporary tire and was dinged. Correctly so, as the emphasis of the judging leans towards originality and condition. I opted for a set of the Michelin XAS 165H15 since. I have been surprised at how many positive comments I receive about running the period correct tires at various shows ( and not just from judges). People looking for originality expect the tires to just one more component to be considered.

Having run both contemporary profile and original (currently) I can truly say that I like the ride of the original better.

As to Pat's safety concern, I say BUNK! All tires for sale are required to meet current day DOT requirements regardless of moulding.

So James - does that mean any period tire maker only for mfgr?

...or only those supplied OES on the 914s in 70-76 - e.g.: Dunlop, Continental, Michelin & maybe Semperit & Pirelli? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

...and Vredstein is not acceptable as a "modern maker"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

...or is it just the size & speed rating only by any maker? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I agree with the 165s vs. "fatties" giving a better ride - cuz the bigger tires have larger mass/weight & therefore more resistance in rolling inertia, as well as the lower profile tires transmitting more road bumps etc.!

Other stock/street 914s which I've driven with the 195s seemed slower to get going (esp. 1.7s) & not a quick turning. ...of course, that's aside from the souped up versions & AXs!

I wonder what PCA would do if NOBODY made the old sizes any more???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

In my research, I could not find any "manufacturer" specific requirements put forth by Porsche. Only the tire descriptor info (size and speed rating). Any tire meeting the size and speed rating found in the owners manual or on the tire label in the trunk or on the door jamb (irrespective of tire manufacturer) would be a proper tire for the car. However to step up to concour judging level, it also should be "period" correct. That is to say, a tire available during the time of car manufacturer.

If the tire manufacturer/tire design (tread pattern)/profile (size and speed rating) was available back in the '70s, then you would be safe.

[Tom_T]

[quote name='Jasfsmith' date='Jun 9 2009, 08:07 AM' post='1178495']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1178248' date='Jun 8 2009, 09:49 PM']
[quote name='Jasfsmith' post='1177924' date='Jun 8 2009, 07:49 AM']
[/quote]

In my research, I could not find any "manufacturer" specific requirements put forth by Porsche. Only the tire descriptor info (size and speed rating). Any tire meeting the size and speed rating found in the owners manual or on the tire label in the trunk or on the door jamb (irrespective of tire manufacturer) would be a proper tire for the car. However to step up to concour judging level, it also should be "period" correct. That is to say, a tire available during the time of car manufacturer.

If the tire manufacturer/tire design (tread pattern)/profile (size and speed rating) was available back in the '70s, then you would be safe.
[/quote]

Thanx for the clarification! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So it seems that one must ante up the very high price of $200-300+ apiece for either the Michelin or Pirelli correct size/rating & period repros for the CW crowd! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Dunlop SP's are still around, but they are NOT a separate company anymore - actually just a brand name for Goodyear in the USA - AND they're not available in 165HR15 right now
- so they're out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Semperits don't come to the USA, nor do they have that size today. ...they were great tires too - I had both M401 & M266 on mine, but they're NLA now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Continental owns Semperit & the Euro-Dunlop brand name, but do not make anything in the proper size anymore either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Klebers were around then & have been owned by Michelin since 1995, but don't offer the size/rating today (I had their race developed V10s put on my `73 914-2L in 83) & they were great tires! ...but can't get them today either! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Vredsteins are only good for the mere mortals wanting to drive the OE size & speed rating tires at a +/- 50% lower price to those above - at $105 apiece! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

unless.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Does anyone know if Vredsteins were around during the 1970's???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Tom_T]

VREDESTEIN TIRE UPDATE

Okay - I just did some on-line research on the Vredestein Classic Tires.

DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF VREDESTEIN WAS PRODUCING - HOPEFULLY IN SIZES: 155SR15 &/OR 165HR15 AUTO TIRES - DURING THE 914's 1970-77 PRODUCTION TIME FRAME????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If so, then they would be a more cost effective alternative for the CWs too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

According to this press release from 5/09 - they were bought from Michelin by a Russian Co. in 2005, which went BK - & now Vredestein was bought 4/09 by Apollo Tyres of India (Tata's in their future?). Production remains in the Netherlands, with now interruptions in production during their former parent company's BK.

That article says that they'd been an independent tire company since 1946, but it's not clear if they produced tires for the 914 fitment during 70-77? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

see this link:
http://www.vredestein.com/Media_Nieuwsberi...sionID=85063899


According to their Tire Design & Spec info on their website, their "Classic" tires are all mfgd to current standards, methods & compounds - see below:

You can download Tire Info. at:
http://www.vredestein.com/file_banden/2006...sionID=85063899

http://www.vredestein.com/file_banden/2006...sionID=85063899

http://www.vredestein.com/file_banden/2006...sionID=85063899

http://www.vredestein.com/file_banden/2006...sionID=85063899

Vredestein Home:
http://www.vredestein.com/
http://www.vredestein.com/index.asp?TaalID=1

VREDESTEIN "CLASSIC SPRINT" 165(/80)HR15 TIRE EXAMPLE:



Hope this helps someone out there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Porsche Rescue]

My car is not a concour candidate, but here's my 155SRx15 Vredensteins installed last week. $84 each plus shipping and mount balance.

[Tom_T]

Here's a list of comparable period correct tires from our kin at the 356 Registry, which is about a year old now, that I found at the following 356Reg. links:

http://www.356registry.com/forum/viewtopic...a51a07ed95f6cf9

http://356registry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=615

<snipped>
These are all still in production though your local tire man may need to
order them up.

( the last number is the diameter in mm)

165SR15 B.F.Goodrich W/W Tire 635
165SR15 Dayton W/W Tire 635
165SR15 Michelin XZX Tire 646
165SR15 Firestone F560 Tire 646
165HR15 Vredestein Classic Tire 645
165HR15 Michelin XAS Tire 646
165SR15 Vredestein Tire 645
180HR15 Michelin XAS Tire 680
185/70VR15 Pirelli CN36 652
185/70HR15 Avon CR6ZZ Tire 635
185/70VR15 Michelin XWX Tire 641
185/70HR15 Vredestein Classic Tire 650
185/70VR15 Pirelli Cinturato CN36 Tire 652
<end snip>

nOTE: I've bolded the ones above which I've seen on-line recently, & the Pirelli CN36's may be dupes of the same tire. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, Lucas & Coker seem to have additional sizes of the Pirellis & Michelins available, beyond those on this list. ...just go to their websites - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

Some on the list are white wall (ww), which would need to be mounted inside out on a 914 to "look right" - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) but then the sidewall markings may not??

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Tom_T]

Lotsa good vintage tire info at this link: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)
http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/Choose-your-rubber.php

[Tom_T]

MORE UPDATES ON VINTAGE TIRES' AVAILABILITY:

Longstone Tyres UK carries a wide selection of vintage tires over in "Limey-land" (that's "P.O.M.E.-land for our "Aussie" friends), and will ship to the USA &/or sells tires through their US affiliate.
Longstone Tyres UK Home:
http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/index.php


Their USA agent is Lucas Tires (Long Beach CA & Springfield OH), but their website doesn't have the search option at the tire size search links below by Longstone, but Lucas should be able to source anything which Longstone offers.
Lucas Tires Home:
http://www.lucasclassictires.com/


Here's what comes up for the Longstone UK tire searches as available today, & it seems similar to that 356Reg list:

Note that the Prices there are in British Pounds Stirling, & Google gives the current Pound to Dollar Exchange Rate as: "1 British pound = 1.6335 U.S. dollars" - So multiply their prices by 1.65 to be easier.

165x15
http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/search.php...chTerm=165+X+15


155x15
http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/search.php...chTerm=155+X+15


This tire search is as of 6/9/09 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

[Jasfsmith]

Does anyone know if Vredsteins were around during the 1970's???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Vredsteins were available in the '70s.

[Tom_T]

Does anyone know if Vredsteins were around during the 1970's???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Vredsteins were available in the '70s.

According to the guy at Lucas Tires, Vredsteins were not OES & won't qualify as CW for shows!

"Vredestein was not an O.E. manufacturer, and would not be a period correc tire for car shows." - Robert Montgomery, Lucas Automotive

I'm getting some prices & additional info. from him on 165HR15s of various brands, which I'll post when I get them back from him.

Here's another matter to ponder for the CWs out there: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Both the currently available Pirelli CN36 165HR15s & the Michelin XAS 165HR15s are TUBE-TYPE tires - NOT tubeless as OE on 1973+ 914s (& perhaps earlier too) - so they're really NOT the proper OE tire for 914s either!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ...plus they're extremely expensive for a set of 4-5!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Porsche (& VW) came out with the then "new" 5.5J x 15 rims & alloys in model year 1973 (1972) specifically for tubeless radials, so I doubt that I'd want to take a step backward from 1973 technology today to tubes!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I also question the judging logic of PCA deducting points for the wrong make tire in the proper size & tubeless type, while not deducting points for the improper tube-type tires in the proper size/rating & period or repro maker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

It would seem that PCA etc. should make allowances for the time when actual OE maker/size/rating/type tires are NLA at all, but repros like the Vredstein "Sprint Classics" are available! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I've never shown my 914, but I've read some of the PCA's CW rules - & they both expect correct maker, size/rating & type of tires on the car, & expect you to drive the car to the events & in the Parades - for the maximum points to be achieved!

So - since they're NLA in 165HR15 tubeless radial by ANY of the OE tire manufacturers of the period, that only leaves driving on an extremely old & absolutely unsafe set of 32-40 year old tires on a 914!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

Are those PCA "Rulemakers" Nucking Futz!???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
...or just completely out of touch with reality & safe driving, or mentally challenged or something??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Is there a way to petition PCA to instead accept & score based upon the closest combination(s) of the currently available OES/OEM/period/repro makers' features of: brand/mfgr. name, tire model/name (e.g.: Dunlop's SP57, Pirelli's CN36, Michelin's XAS, etc.), size/speed rating &/or tube or tubeless type - since nobody can do them all with a safe tire today?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

...in other words: PCA would score for the best combination of those factors & features, with the adds/deducts for each category under tires?

...for example:

A tubeless Vredestein "Sprint Classic" 165HR15 radial would lose 1 pt. for being a non-OE maker/mfgr/brand,

while a tube-type Pirelli CN36 or Michelin XAS in 165HR15 would lose 1 pt. for not being tubeless,

- thereby BOTH are equal in points, period correct & are safe to drive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Porsche Rescue]

Somewhere many months ago in this thread and others, I argued that the best available concours option for a 914-4 is the tubeless Michelin XZX. It is S rated but my original spare 155SR Michelin is a ZX (the second X came sometime after 1970). I also once owned a '76 914 with factory tires and they were also S rated Michelins. Not sure if ZX or XZX.

[Tom_T]

Somewhere many months ago in this thread and others, I argued that the best available concours option for a 914-4 is the tubeless Michelin XZX. It is S rated but my original spare 155SR Michelin is a ZX (the second X came sometime after 1970). I also once owned a '76 914 with factory tires and they were also S rated Michelins. Not sure if ZX or XZX.

Jim - those work fine for the 914 1.7s & 1.8s out there which OE spec'd 155SR15, but we 2.0 914-4 owners were OE spec'd with 165HR15s - ergo the "rub"!!

FYI - XWXs here at Longstone (Lucas):
http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/productPag...name=radial.php
^--- check here, then call them there ---v
http://www.lucasclassictires.com/

It looks like those XZX's may also be tube-type, since that link above lists a tube when you click to purchase, but I can't get them to come up at all on the Coker Tire site with a description as such.

[Pat Garvey]

Does anyone know if Vredsteins were around during the 1970's???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Vredsteins were available in the '70s.

According to the guy at Lucas Tires, Vredsteins were not OES & won't qualify as CW for shows!

"Vredestein was not an O.E. manufacturer, and would not be a period correc tire for car shows." - Robert Montgomery, Lucas Automotive

I'm getting some prices & additional info. from him on 165HR15s of various brands, which I'll post when I get them back from him.

Here's another matter to ponder for the CWs out there: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Both the currently available Pirelli CN36 165HR15s & the Michelin XAS 165HR15s are TUBE-TYPE tires - NOT tubeless as OE on 1973+ 914s (& perhaps earlier too) - so they're really NOT the proper OE tire for 914s either!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ...plus they're extremely expensive for a set of 4-5!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Porsche (& VW) came out with the then "new" 5.5J x 15 rims & alloys in model year 1973 (1972) specifically for tubeless radials, so I doubt that I'd want to take a step backward from 1973 technology today to tubes!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I also question the judging logic of PCA deducting points for the wrong make tire in the proper size & tubeless type, while not deducting points for the improper tube-type tires in the proper size/rating & period or repro maker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

It would seem that PCA etc. should make allowances for the time when actual OE maker/size/rating/type tires are NLA at all, but repros like the Vredstein "Sprint Classics" are available! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I've never shown my 914, but I've read some of the PCA's CW rules - & they both expect correct maker, size/rating & type of tires on the car, & expect you to drive the car to the events & in the Parades - for the maximum points to be achieved!

So - since they're NLA in 165HR15 tubeless radial by ANY of the OE tire manufacturers of the period, that only leaves driving on an extremely old & absolutely unsafe set of 32-40 year old tires on a 914!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

Are those PCA "Rulemakers" Nucking Futz!???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
...or just completely out of touch with reality & safe driving, or mentally challenged or something??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Is there a way to petition PCA to instead accept & score based upon the closest combination(s) of the currently available OES/OEM/period/repro makers' features of: brand/mfgr. name, tire model/name (e.g.: Dunlop's SP57, Pirelli's CN36, Michelin's XAS, etc.), size/speed rating &/or tube or tubeless type - since nobody can do them all with a safe tire today?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

...in other words: PCA would score for the best combination of those factors & features, with the adds/deducts for each category under tires?

...for example:

A tubeless Vredestein "Sprint Classic" 165HR15 radial would lose 1 pt. for being a non-OE maker/mfgr/brand,

while a tube-type Pirelli CN36 or Michelin XAS in 165HR15 would lose 1 pt. for not being tubeless,

- thereby BOTH are equal in points, period correct & are safe to drive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I will only echo points that I've made in the past.

You can not put "real" CW tires on an early 914 without giving up safety & handling. I still have my original Continental tube-type spare. Holds air, but only until the tibe expires. Wouldn't trust it for eve a 100 mile trip.

Vredesteins were NEVER an original US spec 914 tire.

Yep, you can get XAS's, with tubes, from Coker. Yep, they'll appear original for a four. Yep, they'll cost you 2 grand to get installed (total). Yep, they'll handle just like they did in the early 70's, which is why everyone dumped them. Yep, you can say similar things about XWX's for sixers.

I'm a diehard CW, but when it comes to safety, it's time to rethink. Yep, you'll get gigged at a major show for the tires, but at least you got there & can get back home.
Pat

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[Pat Garvey]

[quote name='Tom_T' date='Jun 10 2009, 08:40 PM' post='1179239']
[quote name='Pat Garvey' date='Jun 10 2009, 07:19 PM' post='1179228']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1179163' date='Jun 10 2009, 06:13 PM']
[quote name='Jasfsmith' post='1178902' date='Jun 10 2009, 06:44 AM']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1178731' date='Jun 9 2009, 08:56 PM']
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Is there a way to petition PCA to instead accept & score based upon the closest combination(s) of the currently available OES/OEM/period/repro makers' features of: brand/mfgr. name, tire model/name (e.g.: Dunlop's SP57, Pirelli's CN36, Michelin's XAS, etc.), size/speed rating &/or tube or tubeless type - since nobody can do them all with a safe tire today?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

...in other words: PCA would score for the best combination of those factors & features, with the adds/deducts for each category under tires?

...for example:

A tubeless Vredestein "Sprint Classic" 165HR15 radial would lose 1 pt. for being a non-OE maker/mfgr/brand,

while a tube-type Pirelli CN36 or Michelin XAS in 165HR15 would lose 1 pt. for not being tubeless,

- thereby BOTH are equal in points, period correct & are safe to drive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
[/quote]
You can not put "real" CW tires on an early 914 without giving up safety & handling. I still have my original Continental tube-type spare. Holds air, but only until the tibe expires. Wouldn't trust it for eve a 100 mile trip.

I'm a diehard CW, but when it comes to safety, it's time to rethink. Yep, you'll get gigged at a major show for the tires, but at least you got there & can get back home.
Pat
[/quote]

So Pat - you're a PCA member & respected multiple concours winner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) - can't you & others of your stature in PCA petition for some sort of a more sane rating system, such as what I'd suggested above for tires? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
[/quote]
Chuckle here!

Look, I first noticed that something was wierd about tires for PCA Parade purposes in '93. That was the year I chaired the Parade Concours.

As you might expect, I'd spent over a year in prep for the event & couldn't enter my own car (well it just didn't seem right to do so). But I noticed way back then that entrants were being slaughtered for not having "original" tires.

I was amzed at how many Porsches were whapped for major points because of unoriginal tires. Many competitors lost solely on tires. Set me to thinking.

Tried to make the point with the Parade Concours Comitte that tires were a "safety" thing and should be thought of as the relief given to early 911 owners who had hydropneumatic struts( which were given the OK to substitute). Fell on deaf ears. Two members of the committee ruled me out as a crackpot. The third admitted that I had concerns, but was ruled by the rules. That was 2 years ago. I gave up up after several unanswered appeals.

One one hand I can see the concerns -maximization of purity. Hard to argue with.

On the other hand, I feel that safety should be paramount over originality (yeah, I know...).

I would only suggest tht a grass roots movement be started to change this absurd rule. Be happy to apply my name.
Pat

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[orange914]

So far I have -

1970 - 4.5" Painted steel
1971 - 4.5" Painted steel, 5.5" Chrome steel, 5.5" Pedrini
1972 - 4.5" Painted steel, 5.5" Chrome steel, 5.5" Pedrini
1973 - 5.5" Painted steel (new style), 5.5" forged Fuchs, 5.5" Mahle
1974 - 5.5" Painted steel (new style), 5.5" forged Fuchs, 5.5" Mahle
1975 - 5.5" Painted steel (new style), 5.5" forged Fuchs, 5.5" Mahle
1976 - 5.5" Painted steel (new style), 5.5" forged Fuchs, 5.5" Mahle

Cheers,
-Mirror

i know these "westerns" are aftermarket, (15x5.5) but i've seen these more often than not on early 73's like mine. this group mentioned are the first 1000 + - sent over to fill sales, origanally slated for europe. i'm thinking the dealer put them on a majority of them???