Share your impressions after Engman install, Inner long kit !! Options

[jd74914]

Andy,

I do realize that all molten metals will slightly change "shape." My thought was exactly as you said; by doing it slowly and allowing adequate cooling I would think that one could almost eliminate this warpage.When welding new longs and inner stiffening (just like the kit) onto my brothers car we were able to maintain good door gaps simply by being very very careful with the heat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

BTW, if you want I'll trade you my MIG for your TIG (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Jim

[drive-ability]

On the subject of door gaps etc, I did experience some movement and was not happy but I did put a lot of steel in the corners against the firewall. My plain is to ether build a solid top or a connecting structure under the targa top so I can address any alignment issues then. Now I am mapping out how to build up the windshield frame so it can handle some of the load.
I am so sold on this I also will be doing a version of the outer long kit.
My engine and transmission package is different than the vast majority of 914s and in my case this mod has made the car totally different in a positive way.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Root_Werks]

Completely worth it. I couldn't believe how much it changed the car. Matter of fact, you'll notice your "new" weak spots on the car after the install. More stiffener kits please... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[PRS914-6]

The kit worked great in my car. My car was stripped when I did it with minimal weight and supported on the "donuts" with equal length blocks.

In my opinion, the key is to get the new pieces to sit perfectly flat against the original metal before any welding is done. I mean NO GAPS. The more gaps, the more opportunity to shrink and move. This takes some effort since the kit fits almost too good.

I used large C clamps and 2X4's jammed across the inside of the car to hold everything tight. When welding, don't weld the entire length on the edges which is what I believe to be the biggest error made. This just invites shrinkage and more is not better here. Just weld the holes and tack weld the edges. MIG works fast and easily. Start tacking from the center and work your way to the edges until it is held firmly to the body all the way across. Then, move around as you weld avoiding a lot of welding in one area. For instance, move to the other side for awhile. When finished, my doors fit perfect.

I did the above based on total fear of what happened on Marv's 3.6 thread who said......"pic 3 doors installed, major bummer here door gaps are shiite. the car seems to have moved while installing engman inner long kit. both doors will have to reworked and repainted to get gaps right"

That would have made me cry..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[craig downs]

I installed mine like Paul using a big c clamp to make sure they were tight against
the longs before welding. I also ground a drill flat to clean off the paint through every hole for a good weld. When I got done welding the holes on the longs I took a screwdriver and pride up to check if it was solid and some areas pop up. I made sure when I started welding a hole the wire was in the center of the hole but instead of it welding onto the long it just pretty much just filled the holes. So to make sure it was welded on solid I drilled some more holes with a spot weld cutter. The spot weld cutter left a 5/16ths hole instead of the 1/4 hole which welded more solid to the longs. I drilled the holes to 5/16ths in the back piece before I welded that and had no problems

[Root_Werks]

I second what folks are saying about the tight fit. NO gaps, mine went in like butter after cleaning and preping everything. I also stripped, cleaned, installed, painted in one 12 hour shift. Next day I put the interior back in and drove it. So it's an intense project, but should'nt take more than a couple days done right if you know how to weld.

[McMark]

When welding, don't weld the entire length on the edges which is what I believe to be the biggest error made. This just invites shrinkage and more is not better here. Just weld the holes and tack weld the edges.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I've never had a shrinking problem with just filling the holes. One kit that I know shrank the door gaps, and that person seam welded the edges the full length. I firmly DON'T believe that a full seam at the edge is necessary. A few more tack welds are fine.

I also ground a drill flat to clean off the paint through every hole for a good weld.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I started doing this on my second kit install. It works great.

I made sure when I started welding a hole the wire was in the center of the hole but instead of it welding onto the long it just pretty much just filled the holes.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) filling holes can end up not attaching to the base metal. You need to be very careful that you're not just welding the holes shut.

Like Paul mentioned, the strength of the kit comes from the long and the new metal being in complete contact. The closer you can get them, the better. I typically remove/install the side pieces 20 or so times cutting a little here, and grinding a little there. No two cars are the same, and you shouldn't be afraid to modify the pieces to work in your car. Especially the bottom edge. If that is too long it won't allow the top section to lie flat. IMHO, there should be a 1/4" gap along the bottom edge to make sure you top is not raised.

[Eric_Shea]

How much do they weigh?

[drive-ability]

How much do they weigh?

Its sounds light but I think 20 lbs ? Does that sound right?
I made my own and added a lot more steel.

[TravisNeff]

18lbs and I give a 3rd not to weld a full seam around the perimeter. I did and have some door gap issues to deal with. Was it worth it? Hell yea!

[Engman]

When welding, don't weld the entire length on the edges which is what I believe to be the biggest error made. This just invites shrinkage and more is not better here. Just weld the holes and tack weld the edges.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I've never had a shrinking problem with just filling the holes. One kit that I know shrank the door gaps, and that person seam welded the edges the full length. I firmly DON'T believe that a full seam at the edge is necessary. A few more tack welds are fine.

I also ground a drill flat to clean off the paint through every hole for a good weld.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I started doing this on my second kit install. It works great.

I made sure when I started welding a hole the wire was in the center of the hole but instead of it welding onto the long it just pretty much just filled the holes.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) filling holes can end up not attaching to the base metal. You need to be very careful that you're not just welding the holes shut.

Like Paul mentioned, the strength of the kit comes from the long and the new metal being in complete contact. The closer you can get them, the better. I typically remove/install the side pieces 20 or so times cutting a little here, and grinding a little there. No two cars are the same, and you shouldn't be afraid to modify the pieces to work in your car. Especially the bottom edge. If that is too long it won't allow the top section to lie flat. IMHO, there should be a 1/4" gap along the bottom edge to make sure you top is not raised.

McMark is on target with his comments.

I would also like to thank him for input he gave me after installing a kit 2 years ago. His comments were implemented into the parts (shrink sides to allow better welding and adding the seat belt mount hole for the 70 model on the passenger side - its different than the later models). I always listen to try to improve anything I make and his comments have made the kit better.

As to the weight - the kit is actaully 16.5 lbs - shipping weight is 18lbs.

Thanks

M

[thesey914]

So it's switch your voltage to max on the MIG and make sure the two pieces are melted together. The spot-weld will be virtually flat it you get it right requiring no grinding. if's it blobby and raised it's prob not fuzing properly.
Has anyone tried self tappers to hold the pieces together? Some one showed me this trick and it works very well -just mig the holes up after.

[John]

Yes they make an immediate improvement for the stiffness of the car.

I like the inner reinforcement as opposed to the outer rocker reinforcement (I think it helps more).

I do weld the perimeter fully after I have the rosette holes all welded up. I haven't had a door gap issue with installing these inner reinforcements. If you go slowly and don't try welding the whole seam as one pass, you shouldn't have the warpage.

I weld the perimeter to:

A. Keep moisture out
B. It looks better

P.S. My latest version penetrates the lower firewall and extends up the long all the way to the inner suspension console.