big bore noob, stupid question alert Options

[stateofidleness]

so i have a dumb question.. i have my engine torn down to the heads and case and was my cylinders (i think) are kinda rusty (the little fins on it)

if i wanted to get a new cylinder/piston kit yada yada... can i get a "big bore" 96mm kit?

I didn't know if going with the big kit would require any modifying of the heads or case or something.. or if it would "bolt up" just like the stock parts.

pardon the noobness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Joe Ricard]

Yea 10 HP is really all you will get from a 1.8L getting bumped to 96mm pistons. if you change nothing else.

Your cylinders will serve you better than buying out of round Evil bay ones.

As stated above there is more to be done to a motor to get more than 10 extra HP.

I assembled a 1911cc motor and ran it in my car. It was OK but I certainly was not thrilled. 40 IDF's Tangerine and Mallory igition lighter flywheel. Never cracked the case sso I didn't know the cam was a torque bus cam. Not good for my ported 2.0L heads and Header.
Do not go half way you will not be happy, nor will you notice any difference.

[degreeoff]

Cam cam cam...it is the triple bybass part of the heart surgery.....everything else will follow that. Does that make sense? or do I look like an ass?

hmmm..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[stateofidleness]

i dont know anything about engines and i feel im pushin it just doin the cylinders... cam and all that would be nice, but im telling you, i dont think i could get it back together correctly and working.. my goal is to have it back together by this summer...

[MrKona]

i dont know anything about engines and i feel im pushin it just doin the cylinders... cam and all that would be nice, but im telling you, i dont think i could get it back together correctly and working.. my goal is to have it back together by this summer...

I'd recommend two resources. One is Tom Wilson's book. I've had this book on my shelf for the last ten years and it's always been an educational read.

The second source is Jake Raby's video.
I'm building an engine now, and I usually have my laptop in the garage with this video playing. It's extremely helpful to be able to play and pause the video while I work.

[stateofidleness]

i bought that book tonight as a matter of fact!!!
i just may pick up that DVD as well. seems like a good investment

noticed on jakes site you cant just "buy" a performance cam... he the only source?

[MrKona]

i bought that book tonight as a matter of fact!!!
i just may pick up that DVD as well. seems like a good investment

noticed on jakes site you cant just "buy" a performance cam... he the only source?

Enjoy the book, I really learned a lot from it, and the video let's you see the steps actually being done, it's like having a teacher in the garage with you. I know that sounds cheesy, but it's really helpful! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

If you haven't done so already, go to Jake's website (aircooledtechnology.com) and register in the forums. Once you've done that, you can link up to a valvetrain Powerpoint document that Jake generated to explain his cam program. He developed the cam program to avoid people mixing and matching various components with his cams, only to have poor results.

[degreeoff]

You know I am sorry. I take for granted the COUNTLESS hours I have spent in my days (over 15 or so years) working on cars. I will tell you that all of the above is great info and that the T-4 engine is really easy to get apart and back together! YOU CAN DO IT!! I am not sure of your induction choice but I have a cam (SCAT C-25 with solid lifters) which is a great MILD carb cam with 2000 miles on it I'll let you have for $50 AKA CHEAP!! if you decide to go that route. Either way man dont be afraid of it.

[Cevan]

Jake also recommended doing the cam as well (not just bigger P/C's). So I keep coming back to just beating on the little 1.8 for a couple of years and then perhaps a 2056 kit from Mr. Raby. At the rate Jake is going, with my SSI HE's that's gotta be good for 250hp by 2010. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

Hey, I have seen Josh's cam. It is in great shape, almost 0 ware. $50 with lifters is a steal. Really.

Seriously, jump on it.

Also, get Jake's video. Watch the video 2 or 3 times. Understand the process. About the only serious error you can make when the engine is split is to crush a bearing on re-assembly. Go slow, force NOTHING, and its not an issue.

You will also need one of his adjustable pushrods, and some uncut pushrods. Go ahead and order them now.

Really and truly. Once you get your parts, from case opening to case reseal is a two weekend job if you work at a snails pace (like me).

Then setting your new compression ratio will take an evening. You will need cylinder holder-downers (I made the kind John Muir suggested in his book "How to Keep your Volkswagen Alive"- they are angle iron and pvc pipe spacers. Cheap/Easy.)

Setting the pushrods took me 6 hours (a day). 3 hours to get the first one done, and three hours to get the other 7 done. You will need a micrometer from Harbor Freight to do this. I got the one that attaches to a pair of vice grips, and it worked like a charm and cost me $20.

And there you go.

If you get Josh's cam and lifters, you will be able to do your upgrade for well under $1000. Obviously there would be a TON more you could do, and it all helps.

I would still suggest using the KB pistons and punching out your current cylinders, but the Chinese P&C set may work out just fine for you. At $200, the Chinese set is cheaper - by about $150.



Zach

[stateofidleness]

i dont believe it is the cheap $200 set, i just happen to win an auction and got lucky (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

"setting compression ratio" ??
"setting the pushrods" ??
"cylinder holder-downers" ??

i cant reuse my old pushrods and tubes?

ill pm ya on the cam and lifters.. ill take it from ya as recommended (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

EDIT: im at work.. bored.. scouring engine build threads... i come across stuff like this:
"After it was installed in the car I tried to seat the rings and after a while it became apparent that something was wrong so, out came the engine and we tore it down. The autopsy showed it was very rich, the piston skirts were scuffed and the bores were worn, some of the cam lobes were worn, the main journals on the crank needed polishing, and the inside thrust surface of the rear main was worn."

stuff like that scares me lol... if someone wanted to come over and guide me through teardown and rebuild or point and laugh when i do something stupid, that would be amazing...
to me its "open it, replace stuff, put it back together".. but theres so many little things you have to look out for and measure and the jargon that goes with it

[VaccaRabite]

i dont believe it is the cheap $200 set, i just happen to win an auction and got lucky (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Cool!

"setting compression ratio" ??

Yes. You will need to do this when you put on the new P&C set. If you don't, each cylinder will probably be out of tune with each other, and (worst case) your pistons may collide with your valves (and engine go boom). Good news, its cheap and easy to do. Get John Muirs book if you don't already have it.

"setting the push rods" ??

You will be able to use your old push rod tubes, but probably not the old push rods. Changing the cylinders will; probably change your push rod geometry. Adding a cam will definately require new push rods. On Jakes site, has has a very specific walk through on how to do it. Read it several times. It will take a few hours to do the first rod, maybe a few more to do the second, and then the next 6 will just about make themselves.

"cylinder holder-downers" ??

You set the CR with the heads off. This means that there is nothing to keep the cylinders seated against the case. How to keep your VW alive has pictures.

Zach

[Joe Ricard]

If the stroke doesn't change and deck is similair the oldpush rods will probably be fine. Not optimum but then again he is looking at 300 dollar rebuild not 3500.00


By the way why are you posting the same topic on the Club aka the original 914 mega site.

As the Capt alluded to concerning stupid questions
Fortunately for you we are the same people with the same advice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[degreeoff]

Hey Zach? You goina be ready for the 26th?

[geniusanthony]

Regarding:

"After it was installed in the car I tried to seat the rings and after a while it became apparent that something was wrong so, out came the engine and we tore it down. The autopsy showed it was very rich, the piston skirts were scuffed and the bores were worn, some of the cam lobes were worn, the main journals on the crank needed polishing, and the inside thrust surface of the rear main was worn."

If you read further into it, I believe the main/only problem that caused the above results were not assembly errors. Dave had been using megasquirt for fueling and running over rich had caused problems seating the rings, thinning the oil with fuel, blablabla...I think your using IDF's so with clubbers recommendations that is a non issue(the fueling thing).

I built my 1971 twice in two weeks and it came out great, consisted of 1.7 case, jake cam, euro 94's, and built heads. Came out great using 40 IDF's and jets from my head guy.
Before anyone asks, as i know i would....Reason behind two builds in two weeks is my first (local) head guy was "unhelpful" so i bolted it together, Broke it in, dropped a seat immediatley old 1.7 cores and unsynced carbs killed it. Re-pulled the motor, stripped it, took the old heads to Jerry at NW ConRod(great guy in PNW) bought two core 1.8's and set it w 36/42 valves from jake, reassemble and life is great. First biggish motor built by me and i also recommend the books from above
"How to rebuild your aircooled VW" I believe is the one I used.

[VaccaRabite]

Hey Zach? You goina be ready for the 26th?

HAHAHAHA!

No. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

My house mods, and way higher then usual required family visits cut into my car time.

Engine will probably be done. Supension will be on. But the car will not be drive-able.

Zach

[anthony]

Ok, I want to ask the million dollar question. Why were you going to just replace pistons and rings?

Most likely, heads are cracked and need to be rebuilt. If you are going with a hotter cam you ideally need to upgrade the valve train on the heads to handle it. You also need to look at the bottom end. Check case alignment, polish crank, rods, new bearings, etc. It's a never ending scenario until you arrive at a complete rebuild.

And after you've built a higher performance engine, you need to look at a higher performance fuel delivery system or at minimum getting D-Jet tweaked. This is how the $300 project turns into a $3000 project. :-)

[stateofidleness]

I was gonna get the cylinders redone because they are rusty/look "dead"... wanted to spruce it up a little.. i saw a kit for around 300 for the stock size and was only a little more for the 96mm.. so i figured why not... im not tryin to build a high performance engine here.. i just wanted it to be reliable and wanted to go through it and replace seals and gaskets...

i may nix the cam idea and splliting the case and stop at replacing the cylinders/pistons... i will take the heads to someone to have them cleaned and checked for cracks... assuming they ARE cracked, isnt it better to find out now instead of later once i put it all back together?

here's some pics of where im at

[stateofidleness]

[anthony]

Was this a good running engine that came out of your car? Why did it come out?

Surface rust on the cylinders is definitely not a reason for replacement. They are made of iron and easily rust on the outside. Not a problem!

AFAIK, the $200 chinese P&Cs are nowhere near the quality of the original parts.

It's pretty rare that a 2L head isn't cracked. If the engine isn't leaking, runs decent, and has good compression, I wouldn't do any more than check the torque on the heads.

If you take it apart, the $200 P&Cs will be the tip of the $3000 rebuild iceberg (if you decide to do it right). Because, once you have $1000 into rebuilding the heads, it will be a shame not to upgrade the valve train, the cam, lifters, seals, new bearings, balancing, and all the machining services required, etc, etc.

And, I must say a resulting 2056 with a strong, solid 120hp is an amazing engine in a 914. I got a ride in McMarks and it felt twice as fast as my stock 2L. It's a worthy engine to build. Just know what you are getting into ahead of time.

[stateofidleness]

thanks anthony.. the more i stand there and look at it, the more i want to just leave it as is. i have driven the car ONCE!!!! since i got it almost a year ago.. and it did run! good? i dont know, didnt have much experience at the time to know good from bad...

i might consider just putting it all back together with good gaskets and everything.. id still like to change the pushrod tube seals while i have it out of the car...

the reason i dropped the engine was due to severe hell hole trouble which is in the process of being fixed as well. i hear ya on the "getting expensive real quick".. its nowhere near my budget to spend that kind of money right now.. (poor college kid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif))

ive got the tin sent out for powdercoating and was thinkin of getting the valve covers pd'ed as well... and after reading all this.. i might just start reassembly with a good gasket kit and new hoses/lines

she didnt leak oil or have any trouble with idle or anything the few times i started her and the one time i drove it, it ran fine to me (sloppy shifting but thats a different story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

if you were me (and i value ya'lls opinion more than you know), what would ya'll do?

i know ill be spending some bucks on welding work for floorpans and hell hole so maybe just get the engine spruced up with "daily maintenance" type stuff for now and get her back on the road?