Suby-engined rustoration, 21-Sep-2024 update: more racing-related carnage! Options

[charliew]

Nice to see your still working on it!

So for computer, you did factory wiring with an aftermarket ecu? Can you share your cost vs build time? I'm doing a EJ25 into my off-road car at the moment and weighing the different ecu/wiring options.

Hi Justin,

If you're doing an EJ25D swap, I would recommend a factory ECU and wiring (or an aftermarket Stinger if you're going to turbo it). The factory stuff works really well, unless you plan to modify the fuel maps, use forced induction or mess with other parameters; it almost always starts regardless of the weather or elevation.

I originally used an EJ22T (2.2 liter SOHC) engine out of a 91-94 Subaru Legacy, including all factory Subaru sensors, ECU and wiring. I spent a lot of hours studying the 914 and Subaru wiring diagrams, cutting out unnecessary wires, and connecting the ones that needed to flow electrons. I also am using a Subaru dash cluster out of a 1999 Subaru Forester. While that setup ran reasonably well, it had trouble with the larger turbo and slightly bigger injectors (440cc JDM EJ20G vs. 370cc USDM EJ22T) that I installed. I wired in an electronic "clamp" -- sometimes referred to as a Fuel Cut Defencer -- to allow higher turbo boost without hitting the factory boost (9 psi) fuel-cut prematurely, but it was not consistent and often caused the car to fall flat on its face when accelerating.

RobTune adapts the ECU out of a mid- to late-90s JDM WRX STI for use on an EJ22T engine and harness; that ECU and the EJ22T ECU both use the same factory four-plug ECU wiring harness. He installs a custom chip, based on a modest list of options (fuel injectors sizing, turbo, exhaust, etc.) and entirely removes the factory fuel cut -- which means an aftermarket boost controller is needed. I bought a JDM ECU off of eBay for $80, and bought a set of yellow-top USDM STI injectors for $150 (rebuilt, including spec sheets) on eBay. I then shipped the ECU to Rob to install his chip for $325, paid $90 for the coil conversion, and $70 for injector adaptors. Using his instructions, I repinned a few wires and voila -- it runs great. Based on dyno runs of RobTune-modified cars, my engine should put out between 250 and 275 horsepower.

The advantage of the EJ22T is that the block is closed-deck -- so it will take a lot of boost without blowing head gaskets. The disadvantage is the SOHC heads; Internet Lore says they poop-out above 5000 rpm, but mine seems to pull strong to the new RobTune 7100 rpm redline. DOHC EJ25D or EJ20 heads & intake manifold bolt right on the EJ22T block if I ever decide to make the engine breathe better. Honestly, if I blow up this engine, I'll likely just install an EJ257 and get a factory 300hp setup with easier tuning abilities...

Good luck with your project!

Geoff

Geoff you know your closed deck block might still be worth 500 or so. I haven't been on nasioc for quite awhile but closed deck blocks used to be pretty desirable for high boost. built motors. I bought a 2.0 closed deck short block a long time ago but don't know if I will ever get to using it at this time in my journey.

[strawman]

I entered my 914 into its second PCA autocross in Santa Maria on March 24th. It handled and shifted great, and all engine vitals were perfect. But the failing fuel pump got worse and wouldn't let the engine rev above 4k under boost. But despite short-shifting it and driving on street tires (Dunlop Direzza), I finished in the top 20%.

When I got home, I tested the fuel pressure and verified the problem: it wouldn't go over 30psi. The backstory is (because I'm a cheap bastard) I originally installed a used Walbro 255 lph pump that I found on Craigslist back in 2010. I finally installed a new Walbro 255 pump a couple of weeks ago and it now pulls strongly up to the 7k rpm redline.

I entered another PCA autocross in Santa Maria on April 28th, and I believe I finished in the top 10% (final times still not posted). For sure, I beat some guys in my run group this time who were ahead of me last time. The event was cut short due to an idiot (Cayman GT4) who totally overcooked a turn and spun-out into a bystander. I'll never be able to unsee that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/new_shocked.gif) I just hope she fully recovers from her considerable injuries soon.

I also installed a set of new/aftermarket retractable seat belts from SeatBeltPlanet, but at some point I need to install a harness so I'm not thrown around the seat in high-g corners. I'm currently using NA Miata cloth seats (again: cheap bastard) so a racing seat might also be in my future. In any case, the new seat belts at ~$240 is some of the best money I've spent, since my wife will not guffaw at me every time she gets in my car...

I plan to race a Vapor Trails Corvette autocross on May 12th, so I'll see how I do against the big iron. I'll try to mount up my daughter's GoPro for that event, and I'll post a video or two. Stay tuned (pun intended!).

[charliew]

I entered my 914 into its second PCA autocross in Santa Maria on March 24th. It handled and shifted great, and all engine vitals were perfect. But the failing fuel pump got worse and wouldn't let the engine rev above 4k under boost. But despite short-shifting it and driving on street tires (Dunlop Direzza), I finished in the top 20%.

When I got home, I tested the fuel pressure and verified the problem: it wouldn't go over 30psi. The backstory is (because I'm a cheap bastard) I originally installed a used Walbro 255 lph pump that I found on Craigslist back in 2010. I finally installed a new Walbro 255 pump a couple of weeks ago and it now pulls strongly up to the 7k rpm redline.

I entered another PCA autocross in Santa Maria on April 28th, and I believe I finished in the top 10% (final times still not posted). For sure, I beat some guys in my run group this time who were ahead of me last time. The event was cut short due to an idiot (Cayman GT4) who totally overcooked a turn and spun-out into a bystander. I'll never be able to unsee that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/new_shocked.gif) I just hope she fully recovers from her considerable injuries soon.

I also installed a set of new/aftermarket retractable seat belts from SeatBeltPlanet, but at some point I need to install a harness so I'm not thrown around the seat in high-g corners. I'm currently using NA Miata cloth seats (again: cheap bastard) so a racing seat might also be in my future. In any case, the new seat belts at ~$240 is some of the best money I've spent, since my wife will not guffaw at me every time she gets in my car...

I plan to race a Vapor Trails Corvette autocross on May 12th, so I'll see how I do against the big iron. I'll try to mount up my daughter's GoPro for that event, and I'll post a video or two. Stay tuned (pun intended!).

you are doing something I always wanted to do but never had the guts or car for it. I know you are having the time of your life.
Is this the hybrid motor? 2.5 with early heads or 2.0 wrx heads and small turbo?
sorry to hyjack guys
charliew (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[914forme]

you are doing something I always wanted to do but never had the guts or car for it. I know you are having the time of your life.
Is this the hybrid motor? 2.5 with early heads or 2.0 wrx heads and small turbo?
sorry to hyjack guys
charliew (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Not get off topic, but you can auto-x any car. We had a guy here back in the 80s at auto-xed a Yugo. I have seen pickup trucks to shifter carts, to a Porsche 936 driven by Derek Bell. I have also watched Mr. Bell do a 360 in the middle of a run to miss the wall and recover to lay down a very great time.

Point being you can take any car, you can learn from it, and have a great time. One of the best times I ever had was in a $900 dollar Miata we bought, fixed the EFI flapper valve with a bit of WD 40 took it out to the event on rock hard 14s, and just drifted the piss out of that Miata. No where near the fastest time, but man was it fun driving almost the entire corse sideways. Gave that little 1.6L all sorts of hell.

Hell I used to take a 1998 VW TDI ( yep a diesel) and auto-x'd it had a blast. Would tell the starter to take a few steps back, because that car rolled the coal.

Go try it, drive what ever you have, and have fun.

[strawman]

I was really enjoying the added power at a Vapor Trails Corvette club autocross today, and even with street tires I was hanging with some very fast cars. Unfortunately, I never got around to borrowing my daughter's GoPro, so no videos. On my fourth run, I decided to launch a little harder... big mistake. I usually launch at 3,500 rpms, but thought I could amp it up a bit and I launched at 5k. Bang! I pulled to the side of the track and quickly realized that things were not right on the transaxle end of my passenger side axle.

Below is a pic of the Subaru "tripod" joint after peeling back the rubber boot, followed by a pic of the failed part. These are stock 1976 911 axles that I had shortened and resplined by Dutchman for the Subaru joint. Major twistage failure.





I honestly thought the inner Subaru tripod or outer 911 CV would act as the fuse, but obviously I was wrong. I will call Dutchman on Monday to see what my options are. I might spring for a set of 4340 Cro-Mo or Hy-Tuf custom shafts, depending upon price.

[914forme]

Bummer on the failure, but now you know.

Did a V8 swap into a Olds Bravada once, the AWD SUV, it was hast as hell! But you would fix one thing and the next would break. Took pieces to the drive line guys and they said what are you building a rolling dyno. And I guess he was 100% correct. I was building a torture test device for each part of the driveline.

What I am shocked about is you generated enough shock to shear the axle like that on street tires. That is pretty impressive

Are you running an LSD? I forget (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

BTW, your harder launch was most likely the driving force to nail in the coffin. I am beating that you twisted it a bit on each run. And that axle might not have been hardened again after the splining process. My engineering curiosity would love to see the other side, especially if you have an LSD. You should see similar damage to the other axle unless one side is defective.

[76-914]

I was really enjoying the added power at a Vapor Trails Corvette club autocross today, and even with street tires I was hanging with some very fast cars. Unfortunately, I never got around to borrowing my daughter's GoPro, so no videos. On my fourth run, I decided to launch a little harder... big mistake. I usually launch at 3,500 rpms, but thought I could amp it up a bit and I launched at 5k. Bang! I pulled to the side of the track and quickly realized that things were not right on the transaxle end of my passenger side axle.

Below is a pic of the Subaru "tripod" joint after peeling back the rubber boot, followed by a pic of the failed part. These are stock 1976 911 axles that I had shortened and resplined by Dutchman for the Subaru joint. Major twistage failure.





I honestly thought the inner Subaru tripod or outer 911 CV would act as the fuse, but obviously I was wrong. I will call Dutchman on Monday to see what my options are. I might spring for a set of 4340 Cro-Mo or Hy-Tuf custom shafts, depending upon price.

Damn! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

[charliew]

I guess you could feather the clutch till it gets rolling and maybe get by on another set like these. It will be interesting to see if the swayaway axles some of us have bought will hold up any better. are the tires 8 inches wide? and I guess the ratio is 390 or 370? 02 or 05 tranny? It's probably all in your thread way back aways. I'm glad you are testing all this for everyone. I gues the one good thing was the axle didn't wipe out the stuff around it when it broke, it stayed inside the cv joint.

[effutuo101]

Wow! Following this!

[Chris H.]

The AXLE broke???? Wow. First one I've heard of. At least it broke on the trans end. Otherwise it could have gotten loose and beat the crap out of everything around it.

[tazz9924]

I had the exact same problem, broke the axle in half on the suby side, but it also blew up the Porsche joint at the same time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I just had another axle resplined and i live on and slip the clutch on. One day ill get some 4340’s

[strawman]

I just got off the phone with Derrick at Dutchman Axles. I will be sending in my mock-up axle (see post #179) and the two "female" CV pieces in the next day or two. I'm going with Hy-Tuf material for $585 for the pair; turnaround is about a week. Stay tuned!

Also, because I'm a glutton for punishment, I just bought a wrecked 2005 Legacy GT with 104k miles and a brand new turbo. The EJ255 engine comes stock with 250hp, but it is much easier to tune than the old OBD-I currently in my car. I'll start posting pics once I haul the carcass home.

I have a VERY patient wife...

[strawman]

Are you running an LSD? I forget (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

BTW, your harder launch was most likely the driving force to nail in the coffin. I am beating that you twisted it a bit on each run. And that axle might not have been hardened again after the splining process. My engineering curiosity would love to see the other side, especially if you have an LSD. You should see similar damage to the other axle unless one side is defective.

Yes, I am running an OBX helical-gear LSD in the Suby 5-speed transaxle. My tires are Dunlop Direzza 225/45-16 in 200 treadwear -- sticky, but not R-comps (yet!). You're right that the shafts might have been fatigued, but from what I have read the axles should act as somewhat of a torsion -- accept some twist to take the shock out of the system. It seems like I added a little too much twist! I never asked Dutchman if they heat-treated 'em after they shortened & resplined 'em. The new Hy-Tuf axles will likely expose the next weakest link downstream...

[strawman]

I had the exact same problem, broke the axle in half on the suby side, but it also blew up the Porsche joint at the same time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I just had another axle resplined and i live on and slip the clutch on. One day ill get some 4340’s

Looks familiar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Did your axle break due to a hard launch? Dutchman recommends their Hy-Tuf material over the 4340s. I didn't ask about any price differential...

[charliew]

I wonder what the difference is in the legacy and the sti? I remember the only autocross my son did at the track in ft worth there were several legacys there also. The vvt will give a lot more torque down low plus the 2.5l so even the stock tune should take awhile to get used to. I would drop the pan and see whats in the bottom even if you don't change it out for a better one for autoxing. maybe put a new belt on it too. there is lots of info as you probably already know on tuning open source. it will be interesting to see if you think you need more than what it already is. my son sold his 05 sti to someone in ft worth that bought it just for racing after my son took him for a ride in it. that last dyno was 498 at the wheels with e85 and a big turbo with lots of mods. course that is a 3400 lb awd car. your little hotrod will be a little over 1/2 that so the performance should be something but you also will have more low end torque with the smaller valves and smaller more responsive turbo. I am anxious to see how this goes. the legacy will probably be 3.54? I think from memory, ratio which will put more strain on the driveline but be a real nice ratio for a light car. I forgot the legacy is a 6 spd, you can recoup a lot of your cost just selling the driveline on nasioc. I know it's a lot of work and cost but if you could scoot the motor forward and squeeze the 6 speed in, it would be one of a kind but actually the first gear is really just for getting the car moving and you really don't need a gear that low in the 914. my son's 6 speed always scratched 5th at 6500 or 7k since it was new, I think the salesman screwed it up demoing it to kids before my son bought it.

you know Scott has the same wiring on his porsti so he can give lots of info on the harness.

I just thought of something else, you might send a oil sample off and see whats in the oil to check the motors condition.

[strawman]

I guess you could feather the clutch till it gets rolling and maybe get by on another set like these. It will be interesting to see if the swayaway axles some of us have bought will hold up any better. are the tires 8 inches wide? and I guess the ratio is 390 or 370? 02 or 05 tranny? It's probably all in your thread way back aways. I'm glad you are testing all this for everyone. I gues the one good thing was the axle didn't wipe out the stuff around it when it broke, it stayed inside the cv joint.

Feathering would imply I have talent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) but I WENT FOR IT instead...

My neighbor across the street runs a big-dollars LS1/Mendeola-equipped desert buggy, and he has nothing good to say about Sway-A-Way axles. In fact, he calls them StayAway. After breaking a couple, he had custom ones built by Dutchman and hasn't broken one yet.

My transaxle is a Phase II out of a 2001 Outback with 3.90 final drive. Unfortunately, the wrecked Legacy GT I just bought has a slushbox - so I will reuse the manual one already in my teener.

[jd74914]

I had the exact same problem, broke the axle in half on the suby side, but it also blew up the Porsche joint at the same time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I just had another axle resplined and i live on and slip the clutch on. One day ill get some 4340’s

Looks familiar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Did your axle break due to a hard launch? Dutchman recommends their Hy-Tuf material over the 4340s. I didn't ask about any price differential...

The problem is likely that they did not re-heat treat after the cut. The OEM axles are only treated to a certain depth and the new spline roots are likely far below that depth.

I had the exact same failure on a car with recut splines on an open wheeled racecar a few years ago. It was actually a little worse in that the axle longitudinally split to relieve stress at the same time. The next time we sent them to heat treat after cutting and never had another failure.

[Mueller]

I guess you could feather the clutch till it gets rolling and maybe get by on another set like these. It will be interesting to see if the swayaway axles some of us have bought will hold up any better. are the tires 8 inches wide? and I guess the ratio is 390 or 370? 02 or 05 tranny? It's probably all in your thread way back aways. I'm glad you are testing all this for everyone. I gues the one good thing was the axle didn't wipe out the stuff around it when it broke, it stayed inside the cv joint.

Feathering would imply I have talent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) but I WENT FOR IT instead...

My neighbor across the street runs a big-dollars LS1/Mendeola-equipped desert buggy, and he has nothing good to say about Sway-A-Way axles. In fact, he calls them StayAway. After breaking a couple, he had custom ones built by Dutchman and hasn't broken one yet.

My transaxle is a Phase II out of a 2003 Outback with 3.90 final drive. Unfortunately, the wrecked Legacy GT I just bought has a slushbox - so I will reuse the manual one already in my teener.

Still waiting for someone to do a Subaru motor and auto gearbox in a teener! Can they be abused a little without blowing up?

Great to see you out there autocrossing this car and pushing it!

[mgp4591]

Still waiting for someone to do a Subaru motor and auto gearbox in a teener! Can they be abused a little without blowing up?

That's my plan so far even though I eventually want to build a Subaru manual trans with the final drive modified to 3:55 or so. That ratio is also why I've modified an SVX trans for 2wd behind my EG33 - it came with the donor car and it works. It's REALLY heavy though - probably 200+ lbs so my rear springs will be upgraded as well. I'm interested to see how well the automatic will work with highway cruising. Can you say 80mph at 2600rpm?? And the drivetrain shock should be less as well - I'm using the hybrid axles from Dutchman so we'll see... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[tazz9924]

I had the exact same problem, broke the axle in half on the suby side, but it also blew up the Porsche joint at the same time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I just had another axle resplined and i live on and slip the clutch on. One day ill get some 4340’s

Looks familiar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Did your axle break due to a hard launch? Dutchman recommends their Hy-Tuf material over the 4340s. I didn't ask about any price differential...

Yep, a hard launch on a dragstrip with sticky 245s, I talked to dutchman a while ago but I didn’t end up buying (yet) i will someday. As for the material I have no idea about the material strength of either or price. I just know that 300m isn’t exactly ideal for my axles (that i do remember)