OT: any club/bar owners on here?, thinking about taking over a club ... Options

[Madswede]

Hey Andy: Liz and Nico Ortiz are the owners/operators of a brewpub (Turtle Mountain) where we had the Atomic Ramble here in Rio Rancho. I'll ask Liz to PM you. Nico is about to open a full liquor bar at the old place where we spent the night / partied / BBQ'd / got good 'n (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) So he's going through the setup of the exact same biz that you're looking at getting into. Not sure what more he could tell you, you seem to have it down pat. But I'll see what I can do to put you two in touch.

I'll be sure to stop by next time I'm in the Bay area at all ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) Sounds like it'll be a kick ass joint!

Cheers!

-Nelson

[SirAndy]

Hey Andy: Liz and Nico Ortiz are the owners/operators of a brewpub (Turtle Mountain)

Hey Nelson! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

I could have thought of that myself ... i'm getting old. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
i went to the turtle mountain brewpub the last time i came through new mexico ...

it would be great if Liz and Nico could get in touch with me ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy

[Rick_Eberle]

be careful.......

Most bar/restaurant owners I know end up burnt out and alcoholics.

As do many 914 owners... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

My Dad and I had a bar biz when I was 18. The rowdiest place in town 3.2 joint. There were 8 fights in 5 hours, started before noon one Sunday. I was working by myself...

Great way to make a small fortune.... out of a big one.

I'm trying to picture Rick Ollah as a BOUNCER? Did you break up the fight yourself or did you have help? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Are you in posession of some super secret martial arts skills? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) I've seen a few bar fights and my attitude is... "give me three steps toward the door"!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Cheers, Elliot (let me outa here) Cannon

[rick 918-S]

My Dad and I had a bar biz when I was 18. The rowdiest place in town 3.2 joint. There were 8 fights in 5 hours, started before noon one Sunday. I was working by myself...

Great way to make a small fortune.... out of a big one.

I'm trying to picture Rick Ollah as a BOUNCER? Did you break up the fight yourself or did you have help? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Are you in posession of some super secret martial arts skills? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) I've seen a few bar fights and my attitude is... "give me three steps toward the door"!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Cheers, Elliot (let me outa here) Cannon

I can see where a big guy like you is coming from with that grin an chuckle. But, well, yes, as a matter of fact I did walked several drunks out the door by myself. I'm kind of one of those guys that run into the fire.

This is 32 years ago. I was just 6 months out of my body cast after major back surgury and I weighed 89 lbs. I'm not kidding. I looked like Popeye. I used to do 100 pushups in my body cast. I had big arms and a skeleton for a frame.
You can ask Sandy next time we see you. We've been together for 32 years.

You really can't get in a good old fashion fist fight anymore. Now when you fight a guy he doesn't pull a knife he pulls a lawyer.

Now you couldn't get away with this now but, I had a sawed off pool que behind the bar and I wasn't afraid to use it. You would be surprised how easy it is to walk a drunk guy out the door after one small crack with a blunt end of a pool que. It really stings. And when your drunk, your processor isn't working very good. By the time you figure out why your hand, shoulder, thigh or head hurts, I have you off balance by the shirt and belt and I'm walking your snuggy out the door fast.

I never had a fight with anyone smaller than me, and I've only had my bell rung once. I like being the nice guy with the smiling face and nice things to say, but I'm kind of like a pit bull when my trigger is tripped. Ask Sandy what happened to the big Swede that stole her purse one night when we were 18.

Sorry for the Hi-jack response Sir, But it's life in the old school bar scene.

[Joe Bob]

Hey...a 914 Club House....

Food/Health Inspectors are the worst.....they can kill you with violations and if they are on the take, you need to find out immediately.

The ABC, Alcoholic Beverage Control will be all over you for the first six months, especially if you attract a young crowd. The wrist band thing used to work on 18 and over night if you serve food....not sure if that dodge still works. It's been 25+ years since I was a liquor wholesaler like my Dadz....

You'll need a dance permit most likely, which means you need to be nice nice with the local agenacy that handles it. Live music, same thing, you'll need to know if there are any noise ordinances, as well as signage...is anything Granfathered in? Will you taking over, require any changes? Maybe keeping him as 5% owner will negate that.

also, if you will own the building get an environmental assessment prior to taking over....Lead, Asbestos, mold, etc.....employee complaints in that area will bring the assholes from OSHA and the AQMD.

[Rick_Eberle]

Probably no help, but there is a guy named Ian, who owned "The Burgundy Room" in Hollywood, and also owned "The Ruby Room" in Oakland. He had an absolutely beautiful red Speedster... a '58 I think. We used to talk Porsches a lot in between the Porn Stars/Rock Stars/Tattoos/Flames...

[SirAndy]

and also owned "The Ruby Room" in Oakland.

"The Ruby Room" is now owned by my friend Trevor who is the president of the "East Bay Rats" motorcycle club ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy

[flippa]

Andy

A buddy of mine just opened a bar back here just north of Boston. He has been open for only a few months & started from scratch. He cleaned up an old storefront that was a Jamaican food resturant and applied for & managed to get a liquor license from the town (sometimes it's better to be lucky than good).

He absolutely loves it, but he lives there from 11 am till 2 am every day. Lots & lots of hours involved. Carve out a little private office for yourself with a comfortable couch for quick naps. Have internet & TV to keep yourself entertained.

Like other guys stated, you will have to watch your employees like a hawk!!! Those free beers that get handed out to their friends & family add up real quick. He has already canned a bartender or two.

If you are going to have food, here is a thought. Rob rents out the kitchen to a guy, splits the gas utility bill with him, and gets a small cut of the food profits. It seems to be working out well for both of them; he can offer food to the customers which helps drag people in the door during the day (when it is dead slow). And he doesn't have to deal with the kitchen.

He makes all his money from Wednesday night thru Saturday night. He has bands on these nights. Costs him a few hundred bucks, but they usually bring their own audiance, which balances out the expence. He was doing karioke (sp?), but I think he stopped doing that (because it's lame!!!). The bands always brings in a crowd.

Have a big mo-fo working the door. Rob has one of the largest, scariest humans I have ever met hanging out whenever he has a band. There has yet to be any trouble (and he is in a sketchy neighborhood).

You gotta make sure that no-one is overserved. He & his staff had to attend classes to be able to determine when people have had enough. As you probably already know, people get mouthy when they are drunk & shut-off, so just have the above mentioned big, scary mo-fo explain it to them. As long as the drunks are not being assholes, he lets them stick around & drink water/soda. I guess that it is smart that way; no need to piss off the clientell as long as they are not jerks. You want them to come back & give you their cash. If they are out of line, the big scary mo-fo escorts their ass out the door.

He also has zero parking, nothing, zilch. This has not been an issue as he is on a main drag. He gets alot of neighborhood people, and those who drive always manage to find a place on their own.

ABC has already been in his place a few times. They will send youngsters in to try & get served (several times it has been hot-girls witha BS story). Check everyone's ID!!!!

Send me a PM if you have questions & would like to chat with him. I'm sure he wouldn't mind giving some pointers out to someone else in this situation.

Good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

Larry

[keske968]

Hmmmm sounds to me like you already have your mind made up and are looking for us to talk you out of it. If this is what you want to do then do it. Nothing worse then looking back and saying what if.....

[porschecb]

Reminds of owning a boat or a motorhome. The best days are the day you buy it! and the day you sell it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[Dr Evil]

Do it! You can always quit afterwards and even if it costs you a small fortune I think it will be worth the experience (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

I'd come visit.

[rhodyguy]

i allways thought you walked them through the (closed) door, not out the (open) door.

k

[Carlitos Way]

Here's my experience as an entertainer for a few bars in Souther California.

Yes, karaoke qualifies as entertainment, even if for some it is a form of cruel and unusual punishment.

I've seen clubs started/ended. I've been hired and I've been fired. The one thing I've noticed is... people really hate change. If this is a "neighborhood" bar, the majority of your patrons are probably locals and regulars. People who don't want to drive anywhere else... but who are SO married to the place, any change will send them to the next closest bar, even if they bitched about it for years on end before you took over.

So, the first question is do you plan to keep the same clientelle? If you do, then you have to be VERY careful to make changes small, and slow. Keep running things as they are for at least a few months. When you make DRASTIC changes, people get pissed and they go elsewhere.

If you plan to bring in a different crowd... advertising and promotion is expensive, costly, and slow to show returns most of the time. Unless you have a trustworthy promoter, and he is willing to work for just the door to promote your bar.

Sounds like you're leaning toward a "punk" not "local" bar. That, in my experience, seems to attract a YOUNGER crowd. Younger crowds typically attract trouble, so as others have stated above, you will have to invest in security. Whatever that means. My experience has also shown that younger people tend to consume less alcohol. Not sure if it's applicable all over... but the "older people" bars I've worked at did better per check with older clientelle.

You will also have to make sure everyone gets carded on their way in, especially if you're offering entertainment. If not, everyone needs to be carded at the bar. Those exceptions get costly. Most servers know the consequences... but even the $500 first time offender fine gets clouded on most servers with the promise of additional tip revenue.

I've seen owners drink themselves into stupidity in front of their guests. It happened at the last bar I worked at. It wasn't pretty. Middle aged woman, wrinkled from a hard life, appearing more than 10 years older than she was, hanging out all over the younger clients in her drunken stupor.

My suggestion is NEVER to get THAT drunk in your own bar. It's flat out bad for business. People will lose respect for you... and stop showing up at your bar.

Last but not least... entertainment is key. And as much as I know ONLY the karaoke aspect of entertainment, I will share my experience and suggestions. Nobody likes to go to an empty bar. No atmosphere leads to drinking depression, rather than drinking socially.

I think successful bars understand that you need to offer a variety of entertainment. Have a DJ night, a couple of band nights, and a karaoke night. If the place has a PA, work on getting a JAM session where people just go in a plug in to have a good time.

Running a bar, in my opinion, is not a short term endeavor. It should be considered a LONG TERM INVESTMENT.

That's my $0.02

[SirAndy]

Sounds like you're leaning toward a "punk" not "local" bar. That, in my experience, seems to attract a YOUNGER crowd.

there hasn't been a "scene" club/bar here in the east bay in a long time. the next best thing, the "silver lion" is closing it's doors in a week. the owner sold the building and the new owner does not want to keep a bar in the building.

the "crowd" here is much older than you'd expect. this is not santa cruz (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
mostly old punk rockers and old bikers. and they tend to spend a fair amount of money on booze.

there really is a void here for that kind of establishment. i know there would be a good number of "regulars" every day and the place would be packed when you put on shows.

security is no problem, there's two big motorcycle clubs here in oakland, the Hells Angles and the Easy Bay Rats. Both are on good terms with each other and the EBR provide security for quite a few bars/clubs around here. I know all of them personally and they would be more than happy to work the door.

i've already got two reliable bartenders lined up that have been in the "scene" for 20+ years and one of them is manager material. i also already have the money lined up to go forward with this.

now it all depends on the current owner and the terms he going to offer. i have another meeting with him next week ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy

[Jeffs9146]

Hey Andy I currently own 2 bars in Hollywood! We are selling them as we speak! www.yamashirorestaurant.com & www.magiccastle.com

One of the problems we are encountering is the liquor licence. Transfer in California is issued to an "individule" not a buisness. Do your due dilligence! It can take up to 2 years to successfuly transfer a licence.

First I would check the local laws and current zoning for the buisness as it is now. Then check to see if they have any conditional use permits as well as the last time they were renewed.

Create an LLC and put the buisness licence, and everything involving the club, in that name. Then get insurance for the buisness and alot of extra for you! More than $1M to cover you if the liquor served causes a death! We are currently sued at least once a month for everything under the sun so make sure you have a lawer on your side and your insurance will pay them.

Install a drop safe that is poured in concrete and can not be accessed by the night manager or anyone on staff other than to drop $. Set up a log and double check (two people verification) for all drops and when the safe is opened do not count the money without a very secured bullet proof door or have a security company pick it up and deliver it to the bank where you take the drop log and verify the deposit corisponds to the drop tags in each envelope. We have the person do a duplicate deposit slip and seal the envelope with two people counting the deposit and signing the slip and the envelope. We were robbed of Fri, Sat & Sun night tickets at gun point when the manager was walking from the drop safe to the office! We lost over $55k and the manager sued us for on the job stress!

OK I can go on forever but you get the idea! Feel free to ask me anything you want and I will try to help!

[mel reckling]

Over the years some of the one's I've seen not make it have made some errors like:

Buying new kitchen equipment. A fortune can be spent on coolers, sinks, stoves, grills, silverware, dishes when used ones can be had for a song. Pictures and eye-candy fixtures cost big bucks too. Sure it's nice to have all new stuff, but a little humility will save you tons. Old tables and chairs can be as good as new ones too.

Not running it like a Chinese restaurant(ever see one go out of business for other than health reasons?). Owner is first in and last out every day with his being the only hand in the cash register.

Your best money makers are the beers on draft. Give away the food (daily happy hours), hold firm on the price of liquor. A 40 lb. box of good wings and some cheese and veggies keep people moving around and are fairly cheap. I agree you have to keep the folks from sitting there thinking about their problems.

You also have to determine if you are a restaurant that sells liquor or a bar that serves food. Different strategies for the 2 scenarios.

I also agree that most come through it with the idea that those '2 happiest days' is an accurate account of their experience.

[ericread]

WOW! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I always knew that us teener drivers knew how to drink beer. But I never knew how many of you knew how to provide beer!

You guys are an incredible store of knowledge. And you guys are incredibly helpful. So why do so many members have their cars on jackstands??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[brer]

spend the money to keep the place clean man. I ran a bar for years and it was only thing I could do to keep the people I liked coming back.

If it got dirty and smelly all the punks would come down from Camden Town.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[Jeffs9146]

spend the money to keep the place clean man.

I agree! We covered our floors with Aircraft Hanger Epoxy that slopes into the drains and put the rubber bar matts over it. This ment at the end of every night we could pour HOT water over everything and push it all into the drains! Pour bleach into all of the drains every night empty and flush all surfaces with HOT water.