Wrecked 914 part 2: The insurance offer, Hold your nose Options

[Dr Evil]

Today finds me wondering what is going on on their end. I got an email regarding the one I sent them with the valuation information. Their email asked where the recipts were for the upgrades I did to my car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I am wondering why that matters considering their tune had been that htey are not going to pay for any of that. I dont have any recipts as I did the work my self and I had all the parts sitting around for a few years until I finally put them on the car. WTF is going on? What should I do?
I reiterated that what I sent them was intended to bolster my position that my car, in stock form before any of the expensive mods for which they said they would not pay, was worth considerably more than the initial settlement offer. They seemed to act like that was not of interest to them now and they only want to know what the parts cost. A strange change in behavior.

[So.Cal.914]

I would write them a reciept, you did it, whats your time worth?

[brer]

so they are asking "what you got into it" as a way to figure "what you'll take" ??

[ericread]

At this point I would think that you need a professional appraisal of your car. Since you cannot show what it cost to put together your car, you need to show a fair valuation of the car by a neutral third-party that has the professional ability to provide such an appraisal. Possibly someone like... George Hussey?

[Dr Evil]

I already offered to have George and my friend, Ron the 914 dealer and appraiser talk to them, but they are not biting yet. I still need to get George the remainder of the damage estimate so he can complete his analysis.

[ericread]

I already offered to have George and my friend, Ron the 914 dealer and appraiser talk to them, but they are not biting yet. I still need to get George the remainder of the damage estimate so he can complete his analysis.

They probably would love to not consider such an appraisal. However, it you provide it to them, it is something they cannot ignore.

In my audit work, if I don't see it, I don't have to consider it. Once I see an issue, I cannot exclude it from my work.

[Dr Evil]

They are not allowing me to force them to talk with my appraisers. I will need to get my friend and George to write something up so that I can submit it to them. They were apparently unimpressed with the stuff I have submitted them already.

[rick 918-S]

Yes, do everything in writting. The company has taken their position. If you want it to change you need to prove up your side. Do it now or you will soon receive a check in the mail in the amount of their offer less the salvage value and your deductible. This protects the company from bad faith by getting a check out for the undisputed amount. The ball is in your court. You can not wait until they feel like making more calls. Right or wrong, they have done their work.

[Dr Evil]

So far there is not undisputed amount. I have disputed it completely and they can not send me anything until I say OK. I have several levels of recourse still left to me including the umpire. I do not think it will go there, though.

[plymouth37]

Go get 'em tiger!

[Joe Bob]

Send an inquiry to the State Insurance Commission asking about your rights as an insured and good faith insurance adjustments...make sure they get copied.

Also, don't you have a date stamped email or other offer for the car prior to the accident?

[ericread]

So far there is not undisputed amount. I have disputed it completely and they can not send me anything until I say OK. I have several levels of recourse still left to me including the umpire. I do not think it will go there, though.

Mike;

I can tell you're an agressive guy who likes to feel "in control". Definately not a bad thing for a doctor. But relax for just a minute. You're getting some really valuable advice in this string, but you seem to want to argue rather than listen to what's being said.

"Everything in writing".

This is a very important part of a claims process. It doesn't matter a bit what's been promised or told to you verbally. But you should know that every word you have said to the Insurance company has been transcribed in your record. The claim of the ambulance person; know now that the Insurance company has her claims in your records. You are fighting a battle of documentation, and unless you provide written documentation to the Insurance company, you are fighting a losing battle.

Your personal claim of expenses are not important to the Insurance company. You need the dis-interested third-party expert opinion of the value of your vehicle. An opinion which is has no conflict of interest between you and the party providing the opinion.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the adjustor. Every Joe thinks their car is special and worth $100,000.00. Now this guy comes along with a 35 year-old car, which Porsche itself doesn't really acknowledge as one of their own, and claims it's worth a ton of money. Sure, he put a lot of personal hours into fixing up the car, but it's not like a Porsche dealership was paid to perform this work. If you were him/her, what would you think?

You may think that I'm being a dick by saying what I've written. But I'm writing this as a friend. Try to get yourself away from an emotional point of view and look at this as a business. You are being forced to sell your car and the buyer doesn't understand the valuation. How are you going to convince the buyer that your valuation is fair? Should the buyer simply accept the word of the sellers valuation, or should the buyer demand documentation which demonstrated the value is fair?

Anyway, we're on your side and we're all here to help.

[wilchek]

wow Mike you have had a couple of rough weeks. Hang in there, just be thankful no one got hurt and I am sure things will play put in your favor.

I pulled this from Hagerty web site. Not totally an open policy, but it is liberal enough as it states limited pleasure driving.

Usage
Hagerty provides coverage for vehicles that are used on an occasional basis -- e.g. club functions, exhibitions, organized meets, tours and limited pleasure driving.
Storage
Collector vehicles must be stored in a fully enclosed, locked garage when not in use.
Driving records
Generally, one or two minor traffic violations or accidents are acceptable. We are not able to insure those who have experienced major infractions such as a DUI, reckless driving or excessive speed violations within the past 3-6 years.* All household driving records are subject to review by an underwriter.
Regular-use vehicles
Each licensed household driver needs to have a regular-use vehicle for daily driving and must maintain regular-use insurance in his or her own name.

[Dr Evil]

So far there is not undisputed amount. I have disputed it completely and they can not send me anything until I say OK. I have several levels of recourse still left to me including the umpire. I do not think it will go there, though.

Mike;

I can tell you're an agressive guy who likes to feel "in control". Definately not a bad thing for a doctor. But relax for just a minute. You're getting some really valuable advice in this string, but you seem to want to argue rather than listen to what's being said.

"Everything in writing".

This is a very important part of a claims process. It doesn't matter a bit what's been promised or told to you verbally. But you should know that every word you have said to the Insurance company has been transcribed in your record. The claim of the ambulance person; know now that the Insurance company has her claims in your records. You are fighting a battle of documentation, and unless you provide written documentation to the Insurance company, you are fighting a losing battle.

Your personal claim of expenses are not important to the Insurance company. You need the dis-interested third-party expert opinion of the value of your vehicle. An opinion which is has no conflict of interest between you and the party providing the opinion.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the adjustor. Every Joe thinks their car is special and worth $100,000.00. Now this guy comes along with a 35 year-old car, which Porsche itself doesn't really acknowledge as one of their own, and claims it's worth a ton of money. Sure, he put a lot of personal hours into fixing up the car, but it's not like a Porsche dealership was paid to perform this work. If you were him/her, what would you think?

You may think that I'm being a dick by saying what I've written. But I'm writing this as a friend. Try to get yourself away from an emotional point of view and look at this as a business. You are being forced to sell your car and the buyer doesn't understand the valuation. How are you going to convince the buyer that your valuation is fair? Should the buyer simply accept the word of the sellers valuation, or should the buyer demand documentation which demonstrated the value is fair?

Anyway, we're on your side and we're all here to help.

Eric,
I know your heart is in the right place, but the things you advise me to do have already been done and I said so. I am not arguing with anyone here. I am letting them know what I have done in response to things they have brought up. If anyone here, my friends of many years no less, think that what I have done is insufficient to address the concern that they pose then they are welcomed to, and inclined to in my experience, tell me where they think I missed the point.

On another note, I find it humorous that you think I am an aggressive guy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Those that have met me and know me can attest that I am pretty damn laid back and I have no aspirations for being in control of everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It is amazing how we come across in prose vs how we actually are in real life.

To recap what I have done to date (digest version):

- Enlisted the help of George Hussey and my friend Ron Light. I have asked both to give me a written valuation of my car. Ron has said he will have it ready tomorrow.

- Sent the ins people copies of excelence values from 2000-20007. Sent them the info from the NADA valuation for my zip code.

- Continued to work with the ins company in a calm and professional way. I am not trying to fleece the company. I find doing such morally reprehensible. I have made no personal claim of expenses thus far as they told me it is only covered as a stock 914. Thus, I sent them valuation and expect compensation for my car with regards to it being stock and in great shape as evidenced by pics, and statements. They are the ones that changed their tune and now want upgrade info and receipts. (of which I dont have)

-The ambulance people are not involved. The cop that wrote the ticket isnt even involved yet. I have copies of all of our comms. I have not said anything damning or incendiary so transcription is not a concern to me. I had considered that since they tell you they record all conversations.

I think that is most of the points.

[Root_Werks]

Dude. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[rick 918-S]

Yes there is an undisputed amount. The offer they made to you. Unless you properly document your rebuttle they will, by law have to cut you a check and make a good faith attempt to settle your claim based on the current facts. (Theirs)

The one big threat for a carrier is bad faith and the punitive damage that goes along with it. A company will rarely be faulted for a fast settlement even if it's low. But let them hold onto a check and not at least pay what they figured the damages are and that can open a can of whoop Ass they don't want to deal with.

The early payment is done as a method of file documentation in the event this becomes a legal matter or a commerce dept inquiry.

Everything is documented in writting. Every call, every conversation, every offer, every inquiry. And the notes are very one sided. Should you need to dispute this matter with an arbitrator it's your paper trail against theirs. You should be making the same: time, dated notes on every conversation. I've said way more than I wanted to here.

Oh BTW: I'm saying the above because I happen to know the value they placed on your car is incorrect based on what we all know and the resources we have. I'm sorry you had to go through all this. Your a stand up guy. I really think we should have a comprehensive "How to handle your insurance claim for the best possible outcome" thread. I would be willing to contribute.

[Dr Evil]

Shhhhh, say no more, there are ears here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


That is what I have been told from other sources as well. Secret sources. I have officially rebutted their offer and have opened my appraisal clause. I will keep an ear out to see if they are intending to send me a check right off. I will contact them tomorrow and make sure that I am clear that I have rebutted and that it is documented. Thanks for the tips (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[zymurgist]

Good luck Mike. Low balling you on a car like yours is something nobody should have to endure.

I don't know about Hagerty, but I just put both of my classics on Grundy this year. Agreed value coverage with annual automatic increase in coverage, no annual mileage limit, I have to maintain a different car as daily driver, etc.

[ericread]

So far there is not undisputed amount. I have disputed it completely and they can not send me anything until I say OK. I have several levels of recourse still left to me including the umpire. I do not think it will go there, though.

Mike;

I can tell you're an agressive guy who likes to feel "in control". Definately not a bad thing for a doctor. But relax for just a minute. You're getting some really valuable advice in this string, but you seem to want to argue rather than listen to what's being said.

"Everything in writing".

This is a very important part of a claims process. It doesn't matter a bit what's been promised or told to you verbally. But you should know that every word you have said to the Insurance company has been transcribed in your record. The claim of the ambulance person; know now that the Insurance company has her claims in your records. You are fighting a battle of documentation, and unless you provide written documentation to the Insurance company, you are fighting a losing battle.

Your personal claim of expenses are not important to the Insurance company. You need the dis-interested third-party expert opinion of the value of your vehicle. An opinion which is has no conflict of interest between you and the party providing the opinion.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the adjustor. Every Joe thinks their car is special and worth $100,000.00. Now this guy comes along with a 35 year-old car, which Porsche itself doesn't really acknowledge as one of their own, and claims it's worth a ton of money. Sure, he put a lot of personal hours into fixing up the car, but it's not like a Porsche dealership was paid to perform this work. If you were him/her, what would you think?

You may think that I'm being a dick by saying what I've written. But I'm writing this as a friend. Try to get yourself away from an emotional point of view and look at this as a business. You are being forced to sell your car and the buyer doesn't understand the valuation. How are you going to convince the buyer that your valuation is fair? Should the buyer simply accept the word of the sellers valuation, or should the buyer demand documentation which demonstrated the value is fair?

Anyway, we're on your side and we're all here to help.

Eric,
I know your heart is in the right place, but the things you advise me to do have already been done and I said so. I am not arguing with anyone here. I am letting them know what I have done in response to things they have brought up. If anyone here, my friends of many years no less, think that what I have done is insufficient to address the concern that they pose then they are welcomed to, and inclined to in my experience, tell me where they think I missed the point.

On another note, I find it humorous that you think I am an aggressive guy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Those that have met me and know me can attest that I am pretty damn laid back and I have no aspirations for being in control of everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It is amazing how we come across in prose vs how we actually are in real life.

To recap what I have done to date (digest version):

- Enlisted the help of George Hussey and my friend Ron Light. I have asked both to give me a written valuation of my car. Ron has said he will have it ready tomorrow.

- Sent the ins people copies of excelence values from 2000-20007. Sent them the info from the NADA valuation for my zip code.

- Continued to work with the ins company in a calm and professional way. I am not trying to fleece the company. I find doing such morally reprehensible. I have made no personal claim of expenses thus far as they told me it is only covered as a stock 914. Thus, I sent them valuation and expect compensation for my car with regards to it being stock and in great shape as evidenced by pics, and statements. They are the ones that changed their tune and now want upgrade info and receipts. (of which I dont have)

-The ambulance people are not involved. The cop that wrote the ticket isnt even involved yet. I have copies of all of our comms. I have not said anything damning or incendiary so transcription is not a concern to me. I had considered that since they tell you they record all conversations.

I think that is most of the points.

My apologies if I misrepresented anything. You obviously have things well in hand. Good luck.

Eric

[Dr Evil]

Now we are talking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The revised total is $16,633.00
Less the new salvage estimate of $2000 and my $1000 deductible they are offering $14,510.98

I think this is a reasonable amount. What say yous?