Engine Suggestions, What would you do? Options

[jmill]

I've got a 73 17. and a 2.0. I can't afford a Raby 2270 now but until then I want the best bang I can get for the buck. A stock engine won't work for me. What is the cheapest way to upgrade without breaking the bank? Which block do I start with? I can toss about $2,000 at it. Can I build a stroker for that kind of money? Would I be better to build a small displacement rever? What p/c's do I go with? Thanks in advance guys.

[Todd Enlund]

I've got a 73 17. and a 2.0. I can't afford a Raby 2270 now but until then I want the best bang I can get for the buck. A stock engine won't work for me. What is the cheapest way to upgrade without breaking the bank? Which block do I start with? I can toss about $2,000 at it. Can I build a stroker for that kind of money? Would I be better to build a small displacement rever? What p/c's do I go with? Thanks in advance guys.

A stroker crank/rods/pistons would blow your budget... $1500 easy right there. Blocks are all the same. Use the 2.0 heads and crank. Get some 96mm pistons/cylinders and a new cam/lifters, and build a 2056. Get new bearings. Put money into machine work on the crank, rods and heads. Expect $600-$1000 to rebuild the heads alone. Make sure they repair the cracks and threads.

Pistons/cylinders - $300-$400
cam - $150-$200
lifters - $100-$150
bearings - $100
Machine work - $1000
Use the rest of your budget on gaskets and other small parts.

This is off the top of my head, and I'm far from an expert... I may have overlooked something important (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Chris Hamilton]

As far as I have seen, the best bang for your buck would be a 1.8 motor made into a 2.0, or a 2.0 with ported heads, valve springs, longer connecting rods, a good pair of carburetors and webcam's "Ultimate street cam". You can stick with the stock cam, but above about 6,000rpm the engine isn't going to want to rev like with the webcam.

edit: woah, $2000 budget? that might be a problem

[orange914]

$2000... not gonna happen with a type IV. maybe if you've been into them for sometime and have parts laying around or if you shop around and score some 96mm's or webers cheap. it can be done i guess but if you knew exactly what you wanted and fell into a few big ticket items for cheap. you'd be best off to find a members slightly used 2056, they do come up. or just stick the 2k away for the one you really want.

mike

[davep]

With that kind of a budget, I'd do much as I am doing:
have Len Hoffman rebuild the 2.0 heads
use a Raby 9550 cam, matching lifters, and cam gear if using D-jet
use high compression pistons

[toon1]

Are both the 1.7 and 2.0 in running condition?

Why won't a stock engine work?

put the 2.0 in, and call it a day. Save the money you would have spent on a an engine rebuild that is not your #1 desire and put it towards a 2270.

The 2056 is the most bang for the buck and should be able to be built for 2K. (that's cutting it close)

[Todd Enlund]

$2000... not gonna happen with a type IV. maybe if you've been into them for sometime and have parts laying around or if you shop around and score some 96mm's or webers cheap. it can be done i guess but if you knew exactly what you wanted and fell into a few big ticket items for cheap. you'd be best off to find a members slightly used 2056, they do come up. or just stick the 2k away for the one you really want.

mike

I think it could be done... but I assumed that induction/ignition/exhaust were not included in the budget.

Some quick shopping:
96mm AA Piston/cylinder set on eBay - $259
Web #86b - $150
Web Cam Gear - $35
Web Lifters - $140
Main/Rod/Cam Bearings - $62
Gaskets/Seals - $92

$738

Machine work estimates:
Mag & Grind crank $200
Recondition rods $100
Valve job/seats/guides $600

$900

That leaves $362 for valves, springs, nuts, bolts, whatever.

For $150 over the cost of the Web cam and lifters, you could get a Raby basic valvetrain and a set of chromoly pushrods, use the 1.7 rockers, and still have $200 for other stuff.

This also assumes that between the 1.7 and the 2.0 there are enough re-usable ancillary parts to make the build work... oil cooler, etc.

Am I way off? If induction is needed, add a set of ICTs for $400, or a used set of IDFs for $600. Over budget, but still not bad...

Admittedly, it will not be the highest quality build that the world has ever seen... but it would beat the crap out of sitting on jackstands.

I'm tempted to go this route myself just to get my car on the road, and then continue to build my 2258 as a replacement. We'll see what the springtime brings...

[SirAndy]

I've got a 73 17. and a 2.0. I can't afford a Raby 2270 now but until then I want the best bang I can get for the buck. A stock engine won't work for me. What is the cheapest way to upgrade without breaking the bank? Which block do I start with? I can toss about $2,000 at it. Can I build a stroker for that kind of money? Would I be better to build a small displacement rever? What p/c's do I go with? Thanks in advance guys.

Use the 2.0L as a core and make it a 2056. If you don't have a set of 44 webers, you can go a bit milder on the cam and use the 2.0L D-Jet on it. Or even the 1.7L D-Jet.

Either way, it's still gonna be way more fun than a stock 2.0L and won't break your bank ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

[jmill]

You were right Todd thats 2k just for the engine. Both engines run. They both have FI. I'm going to go with 44's. The stock engines are not quite peppy enough for me. I'm out of touch on part suppliers and machinists. Where's the best place to send the heads and buy p/c's?

[Cap'n Krusty]

I have two sets of typically used 2.0 heads at the machine shop right now. Both engines ran fine, but had a lot of miles on 'em. Both had been done before.
MY COST, welding, seats, guides, stud and hole repairs, and surfacing, but NOT including valves or springs, $1500/set. The days of $600 cylinder head rebuilds are long gone for T4 heads .................

The Cap'n

[Todd Enlund]

You were right Todd thats 2k just for the engine. Both engines run. They both have FI. I'm going to go with 44's. The stock engines are not quite peppy enough for me. I'm out of touch on part suppliers and machinists. Where's the best place to send the heads and buy p/c's?

Best and cheapest are not going to be the same place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Cheapest 96mm pistons/cylinders I've seen are the AA set on eBay. For the rest, shop type4store.com, aircooled.net, europeanmotorworks.com, webcamshaft.com...

For machine work... ask around local if you want cheap. If you want best... you'll pay more, and pay shipping. I plan on sending my heads to Len Hoffman, and having the crank done locally.

[904svo]

Talk to Jake, ever now and then some body backs out of a engine build. Jake
will sell that engine for the remainer of the balance on that engine. But your
money in the bank and keep adding to it soon you will have enought to get
your dream engine.

[jmill]

Thanks for all the info guys. I think I know what direction to head and who to call to get there. Looks like a 2056 with h/c pistons and send the heads to Len. Your right about the heads Capt. Thats going to take up most of my budget.

[carr914]

Run the existing engines and save your money till you can do it right. Otherwise you're just throwing the money away.

T.C.

[Mark Henry]

Guys wanting engines done on the cheap is just another reason I'm quitting building engines and working on VW/porsches.
My rep resting on a POS rebuild just isn't worth the hassle.

Going back to cabinets, women are way more picky, but they have no problem paying for what they want.

[jmill]

Sorry to hear your getting out of the engine business Mark. If I was tripping over 5g's it would be a different story. Unfortunately, I'm not. I'll have to take my 2 nickles and do what I can with them. If that's a POS rebuild so be it.

[sww914]

I think that here can be a happy balance between less expensive and perfect.
Everyone who tells you that every piece inside the engine should be brand new or reconditioned is right. It is better to renew everything every time. That said, I will never spend $10,000.00 on a goddamned VW Van motor.
Tolerances exist to determine how worn a given part is and when it should be replaced. The very finest parts will last longer, be more reliable and build more power. That's not the question. The real question is how much can you spend and is it enough to build an engine that will work for you. For 2K you can almost get it done. The big variable is the heads. If all these heads have cracks then all the cars running around have cracked heads. What fails? What are the failures?
My car has been running cracked heads for 9 years. I expected it to last a season or two, I didn't have another grand to throw at the heads right then.
It is possible to touch up the valves and seats, replace the guides if they need it, replace the springs if you're going to rev it or add a big cam and run it. Buy some Weber 44's, a cam and lifters, some 96's, bearings and gaskets and build an engine. Will it be as good or last as long? Hell no!
Will it be good enough? Probably.

[749142]

Well, with my experience i built a couple 2056s and one 1.9 liter. the 1.9 had 2.0 heads with 96mm pistons on the 1.8 stroke. get some lighter rods, higher performance cam, exhuast, and go with a freer breathing intake. with the lighter rods that combo would be able to rev a lot better. my 1.9 had stock rods cam etc, however it stomped the crap out of the 2056s i built. why, the shorter stroke likes the higher rpm better, the 2056s pulled up until about 4800rpm. the 1.9 pulled all the way to redline even with a stock cam. all it had was a modified exhaust. i used that exhaust on both combos but found the 1.9 to pull harder in the higher rpms and it still had good low end pull. theoretically if you were to keep the 1.9 together at higher rpms it would produce more power if you revved it higher than redline and had the right parts to hold it together.my 2 cents.

sww914, must have had some really used up old parts. ive put together quite a bit of motors using old parts, did the old parts make them fail. no! a couple of them lasted 6-8 years and were pulled out in good running order only to be replaced by something with more power.if your parts dont have too many miles on them re use them youll save money, but remember to get the basics like new bearings, seals, gaskets, etc. and youl have pretty dependable engine.

[sww914]

749142, I agree with you. The point of my whole post is that one can build an engine that is less than perfect parts, ie used or less expensive and have it be a good engine.

[DBCooper]

You're right. When you build your own engines you can think that way, and that's the big advantage of having the skills to do it yourself. Key there is YOU can do it. But when you're building engines for other people profits aren't so big that you can afford to ever have a failure.