after 2 yrs I was publically called out by Kanna Motorsports, moving out of track car pix thread to keep that one clean Options

[byndbad914]

Here is what they posted regarding an issue I mentioned with their junk 2 yrs ago in the track car pix area.

The following is a copy of a PM sent to this poster....
It aggravates me when a single person posts unwarranted comments.
As I stated in my PM ....let's see some pictures.

After viewing a post that you made, I would like to respond to your accusations of our 935 control arm breaking. A review of our records show no sale of a 935 system shipped to you. If in fact if you did purchase one of our systems, you would have our telephone number which you obviously never used.
Every single 935 system is check on an actual chassis for fitment prior to shipment, so your claim of it not fitting leads me to believe this is classic case of not following directions.
There are over 40 of our 935 systems installed and in use, and not one, to my knowledge has failed due to material or fabrication.
I fail to see any pictures of this supposed failure anywhere on the 914 world site, which leads me to wonder if you in fact did some "backyard" engineering and don't want anyone to see the facts, and just point the finger at us.
I stand behind every item that I make, if there is a problem it would have been corrected if you had put as much effort in picking up a phone as you do slandering people.

Wanted to get a shot at Willow Springs before leaving for Colorado, but the new 935-style lower arms I bought from Kanna Motorsports snapped in two with only 1/3 of a lap down when I went out last month (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) That 30 seconds of track time cost me about a grand and, of course, Kanna won't respond to my email asking them WTF they would like to do about it.

Don't buy Kanna Motorsports stuff PERIOD. A couple other items I got required additional machining as well to make them right btw.

But here it is when I picked it up at the chassis shop.
(I snipped all the pix of the car to save space here)

and here was my reply to them, just so everyone knows exactly what is going on. Additionally, as many of you already know about my car, it was professionally built and is in no way a "backyard" car.

took me awhile to find the thread they were talking about having my post. I will quote my response:

First and foremost this happened 2 yrs ago, so it's been a loooonnnngggg time ago. Secondly, I called a number of times after it happened, left messages and even emailed you jackasses.

Thirdly, and more importantly, you sold me the lower control arm piece only (and some upper strut mounts which also needed to be remachined BTW), but it was a "custom" piece you had made for someone else, then they apparently didn't take it and you offered it to me. It was custom because you had made an adjustable sleeve so that you didn't have to unbolt the arm to adjust camber. That sleeve piece that was made had a 3/4" outside thread and a 5/8" inside thread.. which means there was less than 1/8" of material holding that arm together in tension and I didn't catch that when the car was built. As I entered turn 5 at Willow Springs, on the first lap, maiden voyage of the car that custom piece you had made tensile failed, snapped in half, causing the front tire to be shoved back into my car, destroying a brand new Hoosier, busting my fiberglass rocker bodywork, etc. That was a $1000 day for me between new tire, track fees, round trip gas for 30 seconds of track time, and damage to my car.

Don't you fucking dare fire at me after 2yrs of hearing nothing from you - after waiting to hear from you for quite awhile and hearing nothing I made that post to let others know to stay away. This failure happened in December of 2006! I left no less than five phone message, and fired a couple emails as well. It was not installed improperly or any thing like that. In fact, if I search around my garage I think I still have the failed part and I would have been happy to take a photo to show you but your attitude right out of the hole is BS and I am thru with you. Or you can cut me a check for $1000 and we will call it even.

In addition after thinking about this a bit and stewing even more (trust me, this was the worst track day of my life to date and a reeeeaaaaal sore spot) I should point out the camber/caster upper strut mounts were shit as well. There are four bolts that hold the two pieces together - one of them was drilled far enough off center you couldn't get the fourth bolt in - they did of course and the threads had clearly dug into the aluminum part while they forced it in place. AJ just ended up hacking that part a bit, supporting it with the frame and to this day I just run 3 bolts as everything is now in compression and shear friction.

After AJ cut the arm to reset the length and we removed his shit ass adjuster piece, I haven't had a single issue with the arm. I suspect if you only use their non-sleeved, single adjustable part you may not have any issues, as that is essentially what I have now. I should have known better than to take custom pieces that were refused by a previous customer.

Just understand their level of craftsmanship is faaaarrrrr and away more backyard than anything on my car. At the time I purchased these parts I had more money than time and didn't care to machine them myself when I could just buy them for a good price (I have long since moved on from machining parts when I became a professional engineer). However, I got what I paid for apparently.

Since it has been 2 yrs I may or may not still have that shit piece in my garage and will look around for it and post a pic of that POS so everyone on this forum can see what a POS that part was. Had this prick answered no less than 5 voicemails including one I left driving home after spending 3hrs on the track trying to get this car on the trailer, and a couple emails I also sent, this would have never happened and would not have been public.

There is your Kanna customer service... ship you crap shit, you can leave them a bunch of messages, etc, after it fails immediately, then wait 2 yrs so you might not have the offending part (I have moved twice since including a new state so probably why he can't figure out the order which is almost 3 yrs ago now), come from outta nowhere... again, wait for it.... AFTER 2 YEARS... and accuse you of never having ordered or used their parts, blah blah.

You may have wanted to send me a more polite, inquisitive email before going public jackass - you only dig yourself a deeper hole. I will take some pix of the shit upper pieces and the raw alum showing in the slots where we had to go in and make clearance so the threaded fasteners would actually slide in the slots. I essentially rely on the lower arms for all of my caster and most of my camber adjustments after having to just hard mount your shit pieces.

You have managed to get me boiling about something I have tried to forget for 2 fricken years now.

[byndbad914]

so fired up I took an hour off work, ran home and took some pics of the parts I never bought. Pix are kinda big but I left them so everyone can get a good idea of how thin their custom piece was the held the front strut in place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) AJ told me over the phone after he was working with them he wasn't sure about them but I blew him off and said "they say they do this all the time" or something similar. Well...

[byndbad914]

don't have to be an engineer to know you shouldn't thread the outside 3/4" RH and the inside 5/8" LH!!! I did the math back when it broke and IIRC there was literally only .030"-.050" thick sections with high stress concentrations from cut threads holding the whole lower arm together!

Just because you can use a machine makes you a machinist, not an engineer, nor for that matter prove any sort of common sense. I can't believe I didn't catch this when I adjusted the suspension the first time... I sorta recall thinking looks kinda spindly but again, "they do this kind of stuff all the time" in the same sentence they refer to this as a custom piece.

Look how thin!!!! Keep in mind, the rod end has 5/8" diam threads!!!!!! for comparison. I literally shit myself when I saw the failure and saw how thin.

[byndbad914]

BTW it has been so long I don't have your phone #s programmed in my cell phone anymore (figured I would never here from you jokers ever again) but I had both your shop and cell #s back then. You had given me your cell one time you told me you were going racing or on vacation or similar, they were shipping out and if I had any ?s give you a call on your cell. I left messages on BOTH phones at the time they broke, then fired off two emails after that over the course of a 1 month timeframe (broke the car first week of Dec, you will see my original post was Jan 3rd after I had heard NOTHING). Great, great customer service.

work got in the way there... back to posting mo'

[byndbad914]

now for their shitty upper mounts - AJ and I finally gave up dicking with them, and basically made the best of a bad situation, hacked them to tuck near the cell to ensure I could get enough camber range, and I was left to rely almost completely on the lower arms for camber and completely for caster. Notice how one bolt is missing but also notice how boogered and hammered the threads are - that is where they forced the fourth bolt in before shipping to me (sorta grainy cuz my digital cam has a hard time focusing that close but you will get the point)

[byndbad914]

bit better at showing how the threads had dug in when they assembled it - you also can see the bare alum where we had been trying to grind clearance into the part so it would adjust but just wasn't gonna happen without complete remachine of the part - called you on this shit as well BTW. You were never around once you had my money and sent the parts.

[byndbad914]

notice how well the tolerances are held on thread placement - the fourth hole is clearly shifted over relative to the slot

[byndbad914]

the passenger side, again bolt doesn't line up. This one came unassembled in box with the bolts laying with it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) if one won't go together, leave it to me to assemble the other, right!

[byndbad914]

forgot, another shot of the bitchin' custom double adjusters

[byndbad914]

here is the arm after I cut it in half, ordered two 5/8" thru/3/4" thread HD heim joints at $45 each, lengthened the arm to match what it should be without the adjusting sleeve. Not an single issue since, so my "backyard" engineering seems to be working much fucking better than your "professhionaul" job jackass (I spelled that just for someone of your caliber)

[byndbad914]

On the way back to work I realized I forgot to snap shots of your two ball joint "pins" that the lower arm attaches to. That was the real reason I bought your kit - I didn't have the time to draw up a pin and have machined locally as the lathe at the old hot rod shop I worked at in college couldn't hold tolerance below 0.005" and the cost of all that made your stuff seem like a slam dunk.

But I will get pics, two pins, identical parts, machined I am assuming back to back and even THOSE aren't identical and I could barely get the nut down on one side to lock the cotter key in place. I will be sure to post that excellent machine work here as well later.

Keep in mind, you did this to yourself going public with your response before contacting me directly to find out what really happened. Tool.

[So.Cal.914]

Something Vexes thee? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I looked at your pic's, I am not an engineer but I built commercial buildings for years. I would draft the plans and then had to deal with the city engineers and my MEP engineers. I again am not an expert but I would not have trusted those parts to hold up my pants. I can not blame you for being pissed.

[URY914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) I love this kind of thread..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[byndbad914]

yeah, I am beyond pissed right now. This has been one of those things that every time I pop the front hood to do an alignment I get reminded of how shitty this whole deal was and is just one of those festering wounds that left untouched will never flair up but scratch that itch and shit is on.

A few of you have met me personally and definitely thru chat/phone convos about my car, etc and know I am a pretty level headed dude... it is this sorta crap that fires me up beyond belief tho'. I would have never taken anything public had they called me or emailed me after this happened and handled the issue 2 yrs ago. And I let it die after saying my piece 2 yrs ago.

My favorite part of the whole thing is how he looked at a username "byndbad914" and would have my residence in CO and simply assume he could find an invoice after over 2 yrs since the purchase. Jesus - did I purchase these under the name "byndbad914"... I should see if I can even get a credit card issued to that name (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) and of course I lived in a different state at the time.

Getcha some 'corn folks!

edit - oh yeah, and imagine the fun I had the day it broke! The left one let go juuussst as I entered T5 (turning to the left) at fortunately only about 30-40mph and wadded the susp up in the car and I had to drive it off track. Then while I spent almost 2 hours shutting the track down with 3 corner workers and two jacks getting it on the trailer, and then the other one broke off taking the car off the trailer. Having this happen 2 yrs later I should have flown to their shop and returned them thru the front windows. I spent almost as much making these work as if I had done them with AJ from scratch. It is my lesson learned - take notes guys!

[biggy72]

So these were custom parts and more people aren't running around with them? The parts could have been twice as thick and they probably would not have held up. Threads are stress concentrators.

Their customer service skills suck and their engineering sucks as well, but ultimately if you're putting a "custom" part on your car I feel like it's your choice whether you're comfortable with the parts or not.

[PeeGreen 914]

Wow.... just wow... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I hate it when people are so full of their product they do this. Especially to call YOU a backyard mechanic. Obviously they have never seen your car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[PeeGreen 914]

My favorite part of the whole thing is how he looked at a username "byndbad914" and would have my residence in CO and simply assume he could find an invoice after over 2 yrs since the purchase. Jesus - did I purchase these under the name "byndbad914"... I should see if I can even get a credit card issued to that name (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) and of course I lived in a different state at the time.

I love it when people do that. AA did that to me as if I actually order from my name and not the shop I buy EVERYTHING for my car through. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[byndbad914]

dude, these guys makes AA look like they deserve a "customer service of the year" award! I had my issues with George as well.

Funny how I just got some pieces from Jim at Patrick Motorsports cuz I am trying progressive tender springs this time around and the collars didn't fit my Fox Shox. 'Course they fit all the Konis, etc and standard Porsche stuff but not Foxes, so what did he do... MACHINED A SET TO FIT AND SHIPPED SAME DAY. I am sending the other back - he covered the cost of machining and I covered the shipping both ways. THAT is customer service.

For the record, I have ordered thousands of $$ worth of stuff from Patrick and Pelican and have NEVER had an issue and always felt I got a square deal. So it ain't me.

biggy72 - I have a hard time agreeing I am accepting responsibility for their custom parts. Keep in mind, I didn't ask them to make them, they offered them to me as a better solution and I took the bait. Had I told them to machine it like that, then hell yeah, my bad. I simply bought parts from a supplier that assured me they knew what they were doing.

This may have been the only set ever made this way for all I know. He told me a customer wanted a setup you didn't have to unbolt heims to adjust (makes sense to me as well!) but the deal fell thru and he had 'em ready to go, so I bought 'em.

[plymouth37]

Wow, best comeback ever! You are lucky their shoddy craftsmanship didn't get you killed. I don't think it matters whether it was a custom job or not, they sold you a poorly engineered part that failed and they should be held responsible for that failure pure and simple. That was a bad move attacking you, I have a feeling this thread could hurt business (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jd74914]

This may have been the only set ever made this way for all I know. He told me a customer wanted a setup you didn't have to unbolt heims to adjust (makes sense to me as well!) but the deal fell thru and he had 'em ready to go, so I bought 'em.

The situation sucked back then and the design sucks now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Now for the stupid question:

I think that I don't quite understand the system. Why didn't they just use right and left hand threaded heim joints so that you could loosen the jam nuts and twist them to loosen or tighten?


Nevermind. I'm dumb; I looked it up and now can see what broke.