after 2 yrs I was publically called out by Kanna Motorsports, moving out of track car pix thread to keep that one clean Options

[byndbad914]

Dana... ya think! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

So how it would work, sorta hard to describe but I will post this pic again as a start

(big edit cut)

edit - hahaha I just read your post again and saw you figured it out.

[biggy72]

So you're telling me that looking at the part before they were put on the car, you didn't think they would break?

[byndbad914]

I discussed that earlier in the thread... I didn't disassemble and look at this stuff closely before installing. I basically got the box of stuff, took it to AJ and handed the stuff to him to work with. He mentioned he wasn't so sure about them, but I apathetically assumed everything was fine. Even when I set the alignment I thought it looked spindly but just assumed it would be fine. In the end it wasn't.

Frankly, when it broke and I really looked at the pieces I was shocked how thin it was - the fact that common sense should have prevailed when it was machined I would have seriously never expected to actually receive a part that poorly designed from a company that assured me they had working stuff on the track.

That said, I think I am sorta missing your point?

I am of the belief that if you order a product it should arbitrarily work and be without design risk (I know... a stretch and too ideological but generally speaking) so at that time I didn't go over every piece I was buying at the time with a fine tooth comb (keep in mind I dropped double digit thousands on chassis and parts in an eight month period there). Since this incident tho' I am much more skeptical and to double check items before I arbitrarily use them.

Lastly, I literally finished the car one month before I was relocating to a new state so the crunch was on and I was HAMMERING to get the car together as it took longer than expected (as with all projects) as I wanted to test it before moving thousands of miles away from the chassis builder, so I went with it and clearly tested it.

[PeeGreen 914]

I discussed that earlier in the thread... I didn't disassemble and look at this stuff closely before installing. I basically got the box of stuff, took it to AJ and handed the stuff to him to work with. He mentioned he wasn't so sure about them, but I apathetically assumed everything was fine. Even when I set the alignment I thought it looked spindly but just assumed it would be fine. In the end it wasn't.

Frankly, when it broke and I really looked at the pieces I was shocked how thin it was - the fact that common sense should have prevailed when it was machined I would have seriously never expected to actually receive a part that poorly designed from a company that assured me they had working stuff on the track.

That said, I think I am sorta missing your point?

I am of the belief that if you order a product it should arbitrarily work and be without design risk (I know... a stretch and too ideological but generally speaking) so at that time I didn't go over every piece I was buying at the time with a fine tooth comb (keep in mind I dropped double digit thousands on chassis and parts in an eight month period there). Since this incident tho' I am much more skeptical and to double check items before I arbitrarily use them.

Lastly, I literally finished the car one month before I was relocating to a new state so the crunch was on and I was HAMMERING to get the car together as it took longer than expected (as with all projects) as I wanted to test it before moving thousands of miles away from the chassis builder, so I went with it and clearly tested it.

You are 100% correct in that assumtion. If you buy a part that is designed and sold for what you buy it for the manufacturer is the one on the hook and liable. Since these are race cars we are talking about courts are less simpathetic towards us but still holds the same truth.

[byndbad914]

waiting to get confirmation from a fellow racer on another forum if he is cool with me posting his response here. He had a far worse experience IMO than I had with them but in short at one point he mentions the machining is done manually by a 12 yr old... and I have to agree. He is east coast and I am a night owl so I will see what he says tomorrow about copying his stuff over here.

Just when I think this sorta crazy crap only happens to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[sean_v8_914]

wow, that is thin. if you calc the diff OD to ID considering the thread minor it's even less than 1/8. damn near paper thin. I am glad your OK.

what bore and stroke combo do you run?

[jhadler]

You are 100% correct in that assumtion. If you buy a part that is designed and sold for what you buy it for the manufacturer is the one on the hook and liable. Since these are race cars we are talking about courts are less simpathetic towards us but still holds the same truth.

Not that I think Tim doesn't have a valid point, but I'd be hard pressed to name one non-OEM manufacturer who sells parts for racing applications that offers a warranty or otherwise. Caveat Emptor baby.

The parts Tim got were obviously done with little actual engineering, just some nifty machining. And it's a very good thing that all it cost him was some money and aggravation, and not something far far worse.

Yeah, I agree with what someone else said, I wouldn't trust those parts to hold up my pants... And those camber plates look like (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) . And they don't look like they'd hold any kind of stress at all with the back half of it cut away. Anyway, I digress...

When building something that was never produced by the manufacturer (Porsche), it's up to US to ensure that it's structurally sound enough to withstand whatever WE are going to do with it. I suspect that the poodoo double threaded link that Tim got saddled with would probably survive for years on a casually driven street car. But on his machine it folded up like rice paper. Nonetheless, it's our own responsibility to make sure that what we build isn't gonna get us killed. And just buying a part from a reputable building isn't gonna cover that. They don't know you, or what you're installing said part into.

Unless you're paying someone to build you a car from the ground up, you gotta do your own engineering. And if it means second guessing a parts supplier, ask the questions if they come up... Tim got burned, and I'm glad he didn't get hurt because of it. And his lesson is a good one for all of us. If you're building something far above and beyond what Porsche originally intended, think long and hard about how it's going to be effected by whatever you do...

-Josh2

[byndbad914]

Sean - I have a destroked 400 Chevy combo that I used to build a lot of for short track circle track cars and road race cars. Bore is 4.155" (+0.030") and the stroke is 3.250" (a stock 327 steel crank). The large bore really unshrouds the valves, especially the intake valve on the aftermarket heads (I pick up 5-7 cfm IIRC just using a 4.125" bore plate over the 4.000" bore plate on the flow bench). The short stroke with the 6" rod makes a nice rod to stroke ratio.

If I were to do it again tho' I would have used a steel 350 crank with the 3.480" stroke (377 cubes v. 353 cubes now) just because I moved to CO (lost power from 525HP originally) and have gone to 12" wide rears last year so I could easily hold the extra torque on the track these days.

Josh - This would have broken on any car, I wasn't even on it with my car (maiden voyage, rolling slow just to feel the car out). That is why when these guys went public to bash me I made it very clear why you shouldn't use them. I do hear you and agree when using standard parts on a race car

Just making sure no one ends up like I was or as we can all extrapolate, possibly worse.

I have actually been lucky twice in my life with something like this. Years ago before I was a mechanic (actually one of the things I always remembered as a mechanic) I had front end work done on my old 70 Mustang and the guy didn't put the cotter key back in one side of my tie rods. Rolling down a CA freeway, going to work, at ~70mph I decided to go a different way last minute and swing by a friend's work. As I rolled thru a much slower off ramp the tie rod fell out and I halted the interchange for quite awhile. Had I kept going my normal route that would have fallen out at 70mph, not 30mph. Same thing here - when the rod broke I was just getting courage with the new car, but was only rolling maybe 30mph or 40... but was heading to T8 within a few seconds and I would have opened it up there 100+.

Moral of all of this, caveat emptor for certain and always, always personally inspect every part you buy putting it on the car.

Oh yeah, Josh, almost forgot, the upper mounts, we hacked to fit but they are well supported by the steel "box" AJ built - they ain't goin' nowhere (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SirAndy]

I would not have trusted those parts to hold up my pants.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[byndbad914]

Interesting to see that after over 24hrs since his initial out of the blue slam on me he hasn't returned with a response (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Do you think he got the message?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Here is another guy's story - removed his name but it is on another forum... the surprising part was to find out this guy's main biz is pawning ice cream (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) but certainly everything makes sense now.

I do think, however, Kanna has a shot at hosting that show "Kicked in the Nuts" or whatever it's called (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Dude,

I cannot blame you one bit. Here is my deal:

I sent my 3.0 struts to them, they were supposed to change the angle on the spindle, they didn't, the f ing spindle they built didn't fit over the Ohlins struts, I had to bore them.

The lower strut attachment piece was so f ing short that there was no way to even get the standard geometry. I had to engineer and build my own from stainless.

I bought their 935 front suspension pieces, since the lower arm attachment points are in double sheer, I had to modify the back of the trunk lower edges. Also they sent me front mounting plates that were never designed for a 914, took 4 months to get.

The machine work is hack, it is done manually by a 12 year old.

He has a small shop, and farms out most of the work, his main business is "Docs Ice Cream"

Ohlins only did 3 pairs of front struts for him. I had to redesign half the shit when I got it. They suck.

The blow off valves in the high speed were wrong, I had to change them after dynoing the struts.

I don't have anything good to say. If you bought their Ohlins Shock and strut package, contact me, I can make it work.

Buy from someone reputable. They aren't

[PeeGreen 914]

Not that I think Tim doesn't have a valid point, but I'd be hard pressed to name one non-OEM manufacturer who sells parts for racing applications that offers a warranty or otherwise. Caveat Emptor baby.

Yes Josh, buyer should beware. However, something such as this is not a part any manufacture of parts would ever want to fail. People have lawsuits for much less than this and if you claim to make a part like this and claim it to be good I am sure a jury would not be kind to the manufacture. In fact, I would even venture to say they are lucky nothing happened to Tim as they could have a legal liability in this case. You have to remember that we live in a society that believes that someone HAS to be at fault when something bad happens.

[byndbad914]

I am the kind of guy that tends to brush himself off and move on, but to be 100% honest, I admit I almost filed a small claims suit on the guy just to make him have to pay to fly to CA (since that is where the incident happened and I, the plaintiff in a product liability suit, lived) and defend his junk. It was like $20 or something very cheap to file but I would have needed someone to serve him wherever he was at (he is back in the southeast like the Carolinas or FL IIRC - I think he was NC and was racing or vaca in FL which is why he gave me his cell # back then) and the hassle of finding someone to do it sorta halted the exercise.

That and the other issue is hard to say if a judge knows what they are always looking at, I could have laid the parts on his bench and he might have shrugged and said hmmmm, interesting... caveat emptor! hahaha. Judges tend to drive Porsches, not work on 'em hahahaha. And I would have had to take a day off work - where I was doing an honest job and earning my money v. ripping people off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Porcharu]

That just sucks. I am not a real engineer but I do play one at work. I am ultra conservative when I design parts, my stuff will never ever break - it might not be the lightest thing around but it won't break. That part you got was designed to fail and I am glad it broke (I'm not glad it broke at all) on the first lap, I know that corner well and I was always full tilt as I could make up some time on the high powered 'slow cars'.
The one and only time I ever got fired (my friend and I both got fired for this) was when my boss had a rear caliper come loose on his Silver State Classic race car - it was him who took the caliper off of to bleed the brakes - not me.
Steve

[byndbad914]

Given the fact those parts were going to fail, I too agree I am more or less glad it happened when it did as had it been after that first shakedown lap and I was starting to put power down and heat in the tires, WSIR is a fast track period and it could have been worse. The whole Bud balcony area is the slowest part, but still rather fast compared to nearly every other track! I drove the track in 3rd out there and 4th in the 2 long stretches and the other tracks and the one here in CO in 2nd,3rd in stretches so there isn't really anywhere you are driving slow there.

Which is why I love that track (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Sorry about your tale with your job - but IMHO it was a good thing as working for someone that reacts like that and blames you for their mistake is never going to be a good job in the end.

I too am an engineer and why I sorta kicked myself over not catching this. Key was I had a LOT going on and became complacent and assumed the parts were fine instead of taking the time to really check them out, take the time to force a refund or exchange for better, etc. I just didn't have time as I was literally building a car and preparing for a move to a new job/state at the same time there end of 06 and it was a mad scramble - the haste makes waste kind of scramble.

History repeats.... haste makes waste has been a saying for lifetimes and hold true today. It just really, really sucks that everyone really has to take the time to trust no one... that is a sad statement but how I have to treat everything I purchase. That's reality, and it's foolish/childish to think there is some sort of Utopia offered but I do fall victim to that ideal periodically. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[EdwardBlume]

Geez! This story is painful to read. How would they know that you're a stand up guy?

I say let's hear from Kanna Motorsports....

If they come out of the bushes, perhaps you and them could agree to have a 3rd party inspect the parts. If the parts are as shoddy as they look, they can cut you a check for $1000 and come out like stand up operators.

Kanna, are you listening?

[naro914]

Just fyi,....www.kannamotorsports.com is no longer in existence.
What is the guys name that owns Kanna?

[byndbad914]

yeah, I have noticed that site domain is down now. He is on the Pelican board quite a bit but no name is given, just Kanna and I honestly cannot remember his name - I am bad with names as it is and it has been 2 yrs.

I put a thread on the bird board as well so hopefully those folks over there see it and don't get screwed either. There, of course, has been no response from him anywhere, and trust me, the word is out so he knows.

He is in North Carolina according to his bird board info and that I more or less did recall earlier in my postings, so don't buy suspension stuff from a dude in North Carolina without verifying who he is!!

[CliffBraun]

yeah, I have noticed that site domain is down now. He is on the Pelican board quite a bit but no name is given, just Kanna and I honestly cannot remember his name - I am bad with names as it is and it has been 2 yrs.

I put a thread on the bird board as well so hopefully those folks over there see it and don't get screwed either. There, of course, has been no response from him anywhere, and trust me, the word is out so he knows.

He is in North Carolina according to his bird board info and that I more or less did recall earlier in my postings, so don't buy suspension stuff from a dude in North Carolina without verifying who he is!!

The name I'm seeing online is Kevin Schilling. I'm not entirely sure, so don't burn his house down or anything, but he's listed as the contact here
another one: here
here

[byndbad914]

To be totally honest that name doesn't ring any bells with me, but it has been so long it is completely possible that he is the dude I dealt with. However, what seems weird is in the one thread you posted the tuner guy said this

He is originally from Joliet Il, and has just recently moved down here. This is his new car hence why we are setting it up. But he travels all over to race in the points series his name is Kevin Schilling I think I have a few more photos let me check.

And that was earlier this year, and I ordered a couple years back, and I swear it was in the Southeast and wasn't Illinois. Hence why NC seemed right when I saw it on his Pelican info. I know he was racing down around there when he gave me his cell # back then.

However, the other guy that got screwed big time by them that I copied his reply to me earlier mentioned he pawns Doc's Ice Cream, and that race car is covered with that so it must be the guy.

I will email the other guy that was screwed and ask him if he remembers the owner's name.

He has a nice car (apparently screwing folks pays well and the wife's a doctor), tho' I think that tuner's dyno is "optimistic" based on some of the other cars he talked about.

eidt - did some quick math to check #s and yeah... 3.2L is ~ 190 cubes or so, 436HP at the wheels, with 15% loss is 500HP, which translates to 2.6HP/cube.... BULLSHIT, I call BULLSHIT. Considering that the most efficient nat asprirated motors known to man are Pro Stock motors making just shy of 3HP/cube, that is BS. For comparison that would be like making my 353 cube SBC make 920HP with 12.5:1 compression. hahahahahahahaa, NOT.... it is amazing what people fall for.

[CliffBraun]

To be totally honest that name doesn't ring any bells with me, but it has been so long it is completely possible that he is the dude I dealt with. However, what seems weird is in the one thread you posted the tuner guys said this

He is originally from Joliet Il, and has just recently moved down here. This is his new car hence why we are setting it up. But he travels all over to race in the points series his name is Kevin Schilling I think I have a few more photos let me check.

And that was earlier this year, and I ordered a couple years back, and I swear it was in the Southeast and wasn't Illinois. Hence why NC seemed right when I saw it on his Pelican info. I know he was racing down around there when he gave me his cell # back then.

However, the other guy that got screwed big time by them that I copied his reply to me earlier mentioned he pawns Doc's Ice Cream, and that race car is covered with that so it must be the guy.

I will email the other guy that was screwed and ask him if he remembers the owner's name.

He has a nice car (apparently screwing folks pays well and the wife's a doctor), tho' I think that tuners dyno is "optimistic" based on some of the other cars he talked about.

Well, the contact info for kanna as of 2004 is NC, same for in my first link.
Looking up Doc's finds his wife listed as owner Anna Schilling, that helps convince me. Their site
I'd bet guy who mentioned Il is misinformed in some capacity.

Really it would be best to find the business registration and get a name off that, but I'm fairly convinced they're the owners.