Starting a 1971 IMSA 914 Restoration, A privateer run 914 with Sebring and Daytona history Options

[ThePaintedMan]

Looking great John! So glad to see you making more progress. While the Moroso stuff is nice, I got away with a much cheaper option for a breather via Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alum-Breather-Tank...3ab&vxp=mtr

I think that one is 1 quart as well but has NPT fittings. I know there are AN-fitting versions for the same price though. Even though mine is not a /6, I don't think you need anything bigger than a quart. I've only drained mine once (in 2 years) and even then it wasn't really necessary.

[sixnotfour]

We took a Corvette to the Lemans Classic , I installed one of these marine wipers..
http://www.marinco.com/en/products/wiper-s...iper-motors/mrv

[FourBlades]

Cool, thanks for sharing that.

How was the event?

John

[FourBlades]

Duplicate post deleted.

[FourBlades]

Warning: Long post with questions about the fuel system.

Looking at my current fuel system mock up it has some good points, like the fuel pumps are mounted pretty low compared to the fuel tank. All the parts are easy to get to and service. Locating the fuel pumps under the cowl would put them above the level of the fuel tank, which will make it harder for them to prime. The bad point is that I have built a closed compartment in the front trunk with 3 heat sources: 2 fuel pumps and the oil radiator. Also enclosed in there is the fuel tank. So I am worried about fuel boiling and vapor locking the pumps.



I do like this setup so I want to make it work. I will need to heat shield the oil radiator, maybe using the extruded aluminum shield material that is 1 cm thick. Maybe some gold satellite tape. I think fresh air coming in and being vented out somewhere is needed. The oil cooler ducting is sealed off from the front trunk so it does not do anything to cool the trunk. There is room to add some 4" hose from the front bumper holes to either cool the trunk or the front brakes or both. I think some vents in the wheel houses for air to leave the trunk would work. I used to wonder why the original builders cut part of the bulkhead between the front trunk and oil tank, but now I think it was to extract air from the front trunk.

So do people think I can make the pumps work here or should I put them under the cowl? I could use some opinions. I doubt this car will ever run more than a 3 hour enduro anymore but it would be nice to never boil the fuel.

Also looking at the fuel cell mounting. It is strapped to 1 inch by 1/8 angle iron square using 1 and 1/4 by 1/8 steel straps. The angle iron square will be welded to the bars in the front trunk. I want to be sure this will pass with SCCA, HSR, FIA historics etc. Does anyone know offhand if this is sufficient? I know I need to re-read all the rulebooks again.

One idea for improvement is to run a square tube along the front of the cell and add some tabs that would be through bolted with the existing straps.



Another idea which is vaguely similar to what the original builders did is to run some straps from the front cross bar and through bolt them.



Finally I could add a square tube along the back of the cell and run tabs. There is actually room for a 1 or 1 and 1/4 square tube there without moving the cell forward. I could of course use more than one of these ideas.



I realized in looking at this that if I cut the blue area out of the bulkhead I could move the fuel tank back by about 2 inches. This would get it farther away from the radiator and pumps. It would also allow more area for the angle iron frame to be welded to the trunk. I hate to cut it out but I realize why so many people do it with this setup.

I would also like to make it possible to run a taller fuel cell for larger fuel capacity. This is only a 10 gallon cell and I wonder how many minutes of race laps that will last with a 2.5 liter /6 and heavy foot?



I am also thinking of locating the fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator in the back of the car with the engine. I think there should be room back there and it will be more convenient to adjust the fuel pressure from the engine bay. What do people think?



Thanks for reading all this!

John

[Jeff Hail]

John,

Don't let the head demons eat you up. The biggest heat source is the cooler and its ducted out under the car. The pumps aren't going to add any heat especially since you are only running one at a time.

The fuel cell bladder actually insulates. If you are recirculating fuel its not going to heat up.

Run it!

[FourBlades]

Thanks Jeff, I really appreciate the advice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I am planning to use a return line after the carbs and the pressure regulator.

What do you think of the fuel cell mounting options?

John

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Hey John,
I was worried about the heat from the oil cooler too. Zero problems last weekend. It was pretty cold out though. Homestead this weekend coming, hope its warm outside to get more data.
How many laps could those guys have run with a 10 gallon cell? With my wimpy engine I go through about 3 gallons in 20 minutes. I'd upgrade that cell too.

[FourBlades]

Shane: good luck at Homestead this weekend! The car originally had a 20 or 25 gallon cell. I thought that was overkill for its new life. I will try to ensure a taller cell can be used if I need it.

Jeff was right in that you can agonize too much over everything. What the welder can do the plasma cutter can undo!

John

[Jeff Hail]

Thanks Jeff, I really appreciate the advice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I am planning to use a return line after the carbs and the pressure regulator.

What do you think of the fuel cell mounting options?

John

I think the fuel cell mounting is fine. Since you are using the smaller cell the straps are sufficient. The bulkhead brackets behind the cell you are considering is further insurance. Like the tubes from the towers down to the a-arm pivot area... seems very familiar!

[FourBlades]

Jeff: I totally stole the front tube arrangement from your build. I even included a picture from your build and referenced it back on page 8 of this thread. Given how chewed up the front of the car was I thought the tubes you designed would tie it back together. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I do really appreciate your help and your sharing your knowledge with us on 914 World.

John

[Jeff Hail]

Jeff: I totally stole the front tube arrangement from your build. I even included a picture from your build and referenced it back on page 8 of this thread. Given how chewed up the front of the car was I thought the tubes you designed would tie it back together. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I do really appreciate your help and your sharing your knowledge with us on 914 World.

John

Love it!

[FourBlades]

Progress on the front end oil system. The lower oil line was interfering with the anti-roll bar (doh!) so I re-thought how the lines were running. I added an oil filter console and a breather can. The layout could be simplified if I was willing to cut off the fittings from the original oil tank and have new ones welded on at different angles, but I don't want to do that.

Here is how it looks now:



I had a spare cowl brace that I used to mount the oil filter console. I added the green one, the yellow one is in the stock location. I thought re-using a 914 part to make a custom mount was in the spirit of how the original builders would have done it.



Unfortunately my first plan was to put the filter console on the other side of the bay so I got one with the wrong oil flow direction. The right one is on the way.

I toyed with the idea of using a System One, Oberg or other high end oil filter system and I may still change it out, but at least I have a layout that works now.

John

[FourBlades]

Been recovering from gall bladder surgery for a few weeks. Now I am back to work on my car.

Finally welded in the fuel cell. Started by adding some 16 gauge pads to the floor and back of the trunk.



I did not like the unsupported span under the fuel cell, so I added these 1/8 straps going down to the pads.



Welded the corners and straps, cleaned and painted it all.

I also took the plunge and cut out an opening in the bulkhead to accommodate the lip of the fuel cell. This allowed me to move the cell back almost 2 inches, which I think was worth it.



I added two strips to each side to tie the frame to the side tubes.



Straps fully welded.



Now it is really solidly supported. As I welded this up I kept checking that the cell still fit and could be removed for servicing. The foam in the cell will need to be replaced at some point because it is only good for 5 years. It is easy to create something and realize it has some simple flaw after it is all done.

I added some mounting brackets for the fuel pumps. These are made out of 1/8 plate and solidly welded to support the heavy fuel pumps. I also started making up all the fuel lines.



So much time is needed to build a completely custom car like this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

John

[wndsrfr]

I think that you should seriously consider the taller fuel cell if you're not past the point of no return. Track days for me at DE's with a 2.7 and my relatively conservative driving ability results in about 6 to 7 miles per gallon. So, I'm using about 5 gallons in 30 minutes at VIR. I have a 15 gallon tank and can't run two sessions without starving the fuel pickup--have to fill before every session. It's the sweepers that kill you--at nearly 1g cornering load, it's like having the car tilted over to a 45 degree angle. As the fuel sloshes it'll uncover the pickup.
In your ten gallon cell, you may not actually be able to fill it slam up to the top, so maybe you've only got 9 gallons to work with. I think the FuelSafe cells have a sump option in the center with flapper valves to trap fuel at the pickup--be sure that you have this regardless if you go for the larger tank or not--I promise you'll need it.
Alternatively, you can add a surge tank holding another 2 gallons (Hmmm.....since you have 2 fuel pumps maybe you already have that--if so, great.)
BTW your work looks really, really good!

[FourBlades]

Hey John,

Thanks for the feedback. I have been wondering about this issue for a while now.

I need to do some measuring but I should be able to fit a taller cell with very little change. I can go 2 inches wider with a few hours of welding. I would like to have 15 gallons to be on the safe side.

I also am considering a fuel accumulator, good idea.

In some series people place a fuel pickup in each of the back corners of their cells and then run both fuel pumps all the time. That keeps one pickup suckling gas under hard acceleration and cornering.

There is a lot to consider when doing this.

John

[914forme]

I would add a fuel accelerator, but thats just me. I also run EFI, so each to their own, I don't have float bowls to help me through a small fuel outage.

[carr914]

I think that you should seriously consider the taller fuel cell if you're not past the point of no return. Track days for me at DE's with a 2.7 and my relatively conservative driving ability results in about 6 to 7 miles per gallon. So, I'm using about 5 gallons in 30 minutes at VIR. I have a 15 gallon tank and can't run two sessions without starving the fuel pickup--have to fill before every session. It's the sweepers that kill you--at nearly 1g cornering load, it's like having the car tilted over to a 45 degree angle. As the fuel sloshes it'll uncover the pickup.
In your ten gallon cell, you may not actually be able to fill it slam up to the top, so maybe you've only got 9 gallons to work with. I think the FuelSafe cells have a sump option in the center with flapper valves to trap fuel at the pickup--be sure that you have this regardless if you go for the larger tank or not--I promise you'll need it.
Alternatively, you can add a surge tank holding another 2 gallons (Hmmm.....since you have 2 fuel pumps maybe you already have that--if so, great.)
BTW your work looks really, really good!

These will be available in just few weeks. We will have one at the shop soon to test


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfE1v65fNZI

[sixnotfour]

Wow that's neato !!

[Jetsetsurfshop]

I think that you should seriously consider the taller fuel cell if you're not past the point of no return. Track days for me at DE's with a 2.7 and my relatively conservative driving ability results in about 6 to 7 miles per gallon. So, I'm using about 5 gallons in 30 minutes at VIR. I have a 15 gallon tank and can't run two sessions without starving the fuel pickup--have to fill before every session. It's the sweepers that kill you--at nearly 1g cornering load, it's like having the car tilted over to a 45 degree angle. As the fuel sloshes it'll uncover the pickup.
In your ten gallon cell, you may not actually be able to fill it slam up to the top, so maybe you've only got 9 gallons to work with. I think the FuelSafe cells have a sump option in the center with flapper valves to trap fuel at the pickup--be sure that you have this regardless if you go for the larger tank or not--I promise you'll need it.
Alternatively, you can add a surge tank holding another 2 gallons (Hmmm.....since you have 2 fuel pumps maybe you already have that--if so, great.)
BTW your work looks really, really good!

These will be available in just few weeks. We will have one at the shop soon to test


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfE1v65fNZI

I have yellow foam in my fuel cell. I assume for slouching. This would be a replacement?