Easy 5-Lug Conversion - 911 Running Gear, For High Power Applications... Options

[naro914]

so...got a question here...
I took apart all my CV joints, and they are all junk. balls and cages are scored. and the top plates (where the collar for the boots are) are beat to hell. So, I was just going to replace the entire CV joint, but if I read this correctly, PP sells them for $251 EACH!! P/N 911-332-032-02
But...if I get a complete axle, that comes with both CV joints, boots, etc. it's only $234 P/N 901-332-026-11

On PP: http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopca..._SUSaxl_pg1.htm

What I can't figure out is...are these the right parts? It seems that the CV's (and top plates) are 6 bolt, not 4 bolt if you look at the pictures. (assuming the pics are correct)

Here's another thing...what I have in the car are stock 911 size axles. I think it's because we have different stub axles at the transmission - they stick out much more than normal (longer). Its what's always been on the car since we upgraded to 5 lug. What this means is...I can buy stock 911 full axle assembies. Question is...which ones?

So what I need are: 108 mm 4 bolt CV on stock 911 length axles. I guess the quick question is: is the picture on PP accurate?

[Mark Henry]

You're looking for the 1974 to mid-75 CV
The single price is outrageous.
Buy the whole half-shaft and press off the CV's and re- install them on the proper shaft.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/...%2535%2529%2520

Or cheaper is the late model G50 CV, but you have to drill and tap the stubs for the extra bolts (2 each CV) or do the mod I did.
I'll warn you on the trick I did, the CV's are hard as hell to cut in the seals and will add cost if you can't DIY.
I also did the mod my way (4 bolt/two roll pin/with gasket) and cut a relief to accept the gasket, without the gasket (the 6 bolt/no gasket method) may leak grease.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearc...-332-923-01-M60

You must be using an adapter if you're using the 911 shaft, post some pic's so we can see what you have.

[naro914]

According to PP, (and other suppliers) the 69-mid 75 are the same...

No adapters
Top picture is my trans, bottom stock. See how the stub axle has a much bigger 'flange' than the stock one?

[Mark Henry]

Pull out a bolt and see if it has a point/tit on the end. (post a pic)
Then pull stub out and post a pic of the input of the stub.

Don't turn the transmission stubs or input shaft when doing this.

If it does have a tit it's an early diff and they are not as strong as the later diff's. Also it could have the stubs from an early 911-901 and they are not good for a HP application.
I ran into this issue with an earlier 911-901 for my bug.

[Mark Henry]

Instead of machining the CV and using the gasket, why not apply some sealant to the exterior of the joint after it's assembled? Reason I suggest that is because the gaskets tend to compress over time and allow the clamping force to be lessened, sometimes quite a lot. Just a thought.

sorry I didn't see this....

Sealant can be done, but it would be a PITA keep the grease off the sealant as you assembled the CV.
The way the gasket relief works it is still bolting steel to steel, the gasket sits in the relief.

[Eric_Shea]

Complete Axles:

http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item...068/7781410.htm

[bulitt]

Erc- what is your guess on the HP/torque rating of these? Thx.

[naro914]

Eric
What is the difference between them and 911-332-033-09? (which is what I meant to reference above in post #61, not the axle I listed) Looking at yours, it looks like 6 bolt too...

Mark
Diff is Guards LSD.

These are the stubs axles...and complete axles/CV's to be honest... that have been on the car for many, many years...converted to 5 lug back in mid 90's and never have changed anything to be honest...

Any way to just get all the bearings/cages for the CV's?? I can just put it all back together with new bearings/cages/races...

All the inner races have issues like this....didn't even bother cleaning off the bearings..

[KTL]

Instead of machining the CV and using the gasket, why not apply some sealant to the exterior of the joint after it's assembled? Reason I suggest that is because the gaskets tend to compress over time and allow the clamping force to be lessened, sometimes quite a lot. Just a thought.

sorry I didn't see this....

Sealant can be done, but it would be a PITA keep the grease off the sealant as you assembled the CV.
The way the gasket relief works it is still bolting steel to steel, the gasket sits in the relief.

Thanks for the thoughts on what I mentioned. My thinking was applying the sealant after you've got the axles bolted in. Wipe off the grease, put some masking tape around the joint on each side. Put some sealant on there and then peel off the tape. Sounds easy but that's assuming the axles stay in place for a while. If the axles are occasionally removed, the sealant is a PITA.

Sealant in general is easy to do on the trans side. Not so easy on the trailing arm/wheel side!

[Mark Henry]

Eric
What is the difference between them and 911-332-033-09? (which is what I meant to reference above in post #61, not the axle I listed) Looking at yours, it looks like 6 bolt too...

Mark
Diff is Guards LSD.

These are the stubs axles...and complete axles/CV's to be honest... that have been on the car for many, many years...converted to 5 lug back in mid 90's and never have changed anything to be honest...

Any way to just get all the bearings/cages for the CV's?? I can just put it all back together with new bearings/cages/races...

All the inner races have issues like this....didn't even bother cleaning off the bearings..

Bob review posts #37 and # 44 of this thread...I want you to pull a stub and compare the shaft to a stock /4 stub. The early stub will work, but a lot of it is unsupported and could eventually fail. If it failed it would take out your diff.

[naro914]

Mark, will have to wait till the weekend when I can get up to the shop. Not sure where you're going with this? What stubs are you thinking these are? They have been on this car in an all track/race environment for over 15 years now with an engine that's now over 350 hp and never had an issue...

If I remember correctly, they are much "beefier" than the ones on the spare trans I have, I'll have to check and take pictures.

FYI, these were not out on by me, they were from my race mechanic at the time...

[pcar916]

... Sealant in general is easy to do on the trans side. Not so easy on the trailing arm/wheel side!

It's easy when you leave the stub-axle attached to the CV/axle and just remove the outer nut... comes out whole. I haven't used gaskets in more years than I can remember. But it does take care to keep the fields apart.

I've used 914, 911, and 930 CV's with various axles. I'd use 108's except the weight difference is huge. I've now stuck with 944 CV"s (100's) and leave it at that as my (IMHO) balance between weight/longevity.

But I'm only sportin' 270hp.

Good luck!

[naro914]

Mark
Just re-read what I wrote and it sounded a bit defiant..wasn't meant to be, I was typing on my iPhone.... My only plan for this project was originally to just re-pack/clean up the CV's, not redesign the entire axle set up. What I have has worked for many years, so much so that this is the first time I've ever even given them a thought. Since I found that my CVs are toast, I just want to replace what's needed.... If that means new complete axle assemblies so I can get the CVs (and the cheapest solution) then that's what I'll do.

But, in the interest of discovery and learning, I'll try to get the stubs off this weekend and post pics with measurements...

[Mark Henry]

Mark
Just re-read what I wrote and it sounded a bit defiant..wasn't meant to be, I was typing on my iPhone.... My only plan for this project was originally to just re-pack/clean up the CV's, not redesign the entire axle set up. What I have has worked for many years, so much so that this is the first time I've ever even given them a thought. Since I found that my CVs are toast, I just want to replace what's needed.... If that means new complete axle assemblies so I can get the CVs (and the cheapest solution) then that's what I'll do.

But, in the interest of discovery and learning, I'll try to get the stubs off this weekend and post pics with measurements...

I didn't even read this till now...not answering right away I wasn't mad or anything...I was out for the evening. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[KTL]

... Sealant in general is easy to do on the trans side. Not so easy on the trailing arm/wheel side!

It's easy when you leave the stub-axle attached to the CV/axle and just remove the outer nut... comes out whole.

Good point about removing the outer nut at the stub axle & doing the sealant gig w/the stub axle on the bench. Thanks for the slapjack upside the head to jostle my occasional one-track-mind perspective! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

Looking at yours, it looks like 6 bolt too...

No, you can see the two pins sticking out clearly in the photo so, 4 bolts, 2 pins.

This is the only way I know of to get the 4 bolt 911 CV's now. Buy the complete axle and replace with the free floating Sway-a-Way axle.

According to PP, (and other suppliers) the 69-mid 75 are the same...

Nope. Check Mark's pictures earlier in this thread. Some "Sporto" flanges are longer.

[Mark Henry]

Ok some pics on thisfirst it's not just a "sporto' flange as the 1969 and earlier had the longer flange as well

BTW sorry about the focus on the first couple of pics...Sir Andy taught me how to use the camera.

Left to right 914/4, 1970 911 108mm with 10mm bolts, 1969 "sporto" style

[Mark Henry]

Difference in shaft lengths between the 1970 901 flange and the "sporto" flange

[Mark Henry]

This is the 1970 911/901 flange sitting in a 914-901 diff. Note the pencil, the flange sits down flush against the diff at the bearing carrier. There actually is a couple thousands clearance.
BTW the 914/4 flange sits down exactly the same as in this pic.

[Mark Henry]

This is the "sporto" (1969 901) flange sitting in the same 914-901 diff. notice the large gap. I also noticed the later bolt doesn't catch as many threads.