RANT: Electric Conversions, Not what you think...... Options

[KaptKaos]

There's a fellow selling a motor in the classifieds. Here's the link:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92077

Seems normal enough. I assume, maybe wrongly, that this person is using the car for an electric conversion.

I have no issue with people converting their cars to electric motors. However, I am wondering if it is reasonable to ask or inform the people that are looking to do this to please try to use '76 cars? This is particularly important in California, as the smog checks in California aren't required on Pre-76 cars.

There are two counter arguments that I can think of and they are:

1) '76 cars are fairly rare, and therefore either more expensive and/or harder to find.
2) The point of an electric conversion is to reduce emissions, so using a car that has higher emissions makes more sense.

I am not sure if this is practical/possible/reasonable/feasible, so I figured that I'd ask.

Am I out of line here?

Please note that I mean no ill will to the seller above.

[ericread]

I'm not sure I understand your question?

Are you trying to encourage people to heavily modify only post 1975 914's, or are you saying because of their scarcity, to heavily modify only pre-1976 914's?

As for an electric conversion, it is obviously a radical modification to the 914. As is a Subi conversion or a V-8 conversion. So are you against these conversions, or are you just against electric conversions?

Eric Read

[r_towle]

There's a fellow selling a motor in the classifieds. Here's the link:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92077

Seems normal enough. I assume, maybe wrongly, that this person is using the car for an electric conversion.

I have no issue with people converting their cars to electric motors. However, I am wondering if it is reasonable to ask or inform the people that are looking to do this to please try to use '76 cars? This is particularly important in California, as the smog checks in California aren't required on Pre-76 cars.

There are two counter arguments that I can think of and they are:

1) '76 cars are fairly rare, and therefore either more expensive and/or harder to find.
2) The point of an electric conversion is to reduce emissions, so using a car that has higher emissions makes more sense.

I am not sure if this is practical/possible/reasonable/feasible, so I figured that I'd ask.

Am I out of line here?

Please note that I mean no ill will to the seller above.

I say to let them use whatever they want.
From what I have seen, based upon the current technology with batteries, most people do the conversion, then give up on it after a few years...when its time to replace the batteries.
Its all bolt in stuff that can be removed.

Rich

[KaptKaos]

I say to let them use whatever they want.
From what I have seen, based upon the current technology with batteries, most people do the conversion, then give up on it after a few years...when its time to replace the batteries.
Its all bolt in stuff that can be removed.

Rich

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) - That's perfect.

Eric- Maybe I wasn't very clear.

Is it reasonable to ask these folks to try and find '76 cars for their conversions?

I added the rebuttals just for the sake of argument.

[VaccaRabite]

In short, no. Its not reasonable.

Zach

[rick 918-S]

Until battery technology makes some serious strides I think an electric conversion is a waste of time and money. The only batteries worth using are priced higher than the national debt. Lead acid batteries are heavy, short duration, and cause more polution to manufacture and dispose of than all the gas you could burn for the next two years. (the life of the batteries) So IMHO electric is not green and should be taken on as a fun hobby and not a serious life style change.

[GeorgeRud]

I'd agree with Rick, there are no truly viable energy storing devices out there yet. Batteries need to come a long way (increase in power storing capacity and decrease in price) before they are a good choice, and capacitors/etc. just aren't out there yet. I think once they do, you'll see many people converting (or manufacturers producing) electric cars.

The current rage over hybrids doesn't seem to make much sense either, as they seem to combine the complications of gasoline power with the electronics of electric as well. Maybe the way diesel locomotives have done things all these years may make sense some day for automobiles! Or perhaps it's time for a resurgance of steam after all these years! It's fun to dream.

[Elliot Cannon]

Joes comment, I believe is mostly for California people since 1976 cars are required to have the mandatory smog check. Because of that, they cannot be modified much, if at all (with an electric conversion being an exception). That would leave all the pre 76 cars available for modification (V8, large type IV, six etc). There is a nice 76 with a salvage title for sale here on the central California coast that would be a great candidate for electric conversion. If you are thinking of doing an electric conversion in California, I would encourage you to look for a 76.

Cheers, Elliot

[ericread]

I really don't understand some of these postings that are so angry regarding electrical conversions? If I ever decided to convert my '74 914 to batteries, it would be my decision, not yours. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)

I am also surprised that many of the owners out there that would take their 914 into a major non-stock modifications (V8, large type IV, six etc) would be so judgemental regarding anyone that would electrify their 914! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

As for leaving the pre-76 914's open to modification (V8, large type IV, six etc), the California exemption for pre-1976 cars from emission testing is specifically for vehicles that are in their stock configuration. Once you modify your 914 with a non-stock /6, V8 or large type IV, it is no longer emission testing exempt. So the premise of using only pre-76 vehicles for electrical modification just doesn't hold water...

OK, I guess it's time for the judgemental posters out there to flame me now...

Eric (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[biosurfer1]

I saw a little promise watching that video of the electric drag racer with that new Li-Ion battery pack he used the last couple races. Much smaller, longer life and held more charge. Looked great until I looked more into it and saw that pack would have cost ~$20,000! There goes any savings...

[So.Cal.914]

So the premise of using only pre-76 vehicles for electrical modification just doesn't hold water...

It does unless some idiot told them it's modified.

[ericread]

So the premise of using only pre-76 vehicles for electrical modification just doesn't hold water...

It does unless some idiot told them it's modified.

Sure, you can lie, cheat and steal. It still doesn't make it legal. You could re-badge a 76 as a 75 and get around the legal requirements too (We've all seen the thread where a certain Atlanta reseller offered to sell the required items to do just that). It doesn't make it right and I wouldn't want to have to explain to the police if I got caught...

Seemingly, if you were in an accident or some other type of event where a police officer inspected the vehicle and found a V8 where a four-cylinder 2.0L engine were expected, I would assume there would be some splaining to do...

I was only assuming that this question was being asked with integrity as to legal requirements. If this thread is based upon the premise that we all misrepresent our vehicles, then the 1976 issue still doesn't hold water.

Eric (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[grantsfo]

I say let the conversions run amock across all model years including 914-6's. Just will increase value of clean stockish cars as they become more scarce.

[CliffBraun]

So the premise of using only pre-76 vehicles for electrical modification just doesn't hold water...

It does unless some idiot told them it's modified.

Sure, you can lie, cheat and steal. It still doesn't make it legal. You could re-badge a 76 as a 75 and get around the legal requirements too (We've all seen the thread where a certain Atlanta reseller offered to sell the required items to do just that). It doesn't make it right and I wouldn't want to have to explain to the police if I got caught...

Seemingly, if you were in an accident or some other type of event where a police officer inspected the vehicle and found a V8 where a four-cylinder 2.0L engine were expected, I would assume there would be some splaining to do...

I was only assuming that this question was being asked with integrity as to legal requirements. If this thread is based upon the premise that we all misrepresent our vehicles, then the 1976 issue still doesn't hold water.

Eric (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

It's a $500 ticket and you can't use the car until a ref certifies it's been returned to stock form, not much else.

[effutuo101]

as the smog checks in California aren't required on Pre-76 cars.

Hijack

Good to know. I have been doing some research on this. Do you have a one stop web site? the info I have gathered so far is conflicting.

[rick 918-S]

I really don't understand some of these postings that are so angry regarding electrical conversions? If I ever decided to convert my '74 914 to batteries, it would be my decision, not yours. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)

I am also surprised that many of the owners out there that would take their 914 into a major non-stock modifications (V8, large type IV, six etc) would be so judgemental regarding anyone that would electrify their 914! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

As for leaving the pre-76 914's open to modification (V8, large type IV, six etc), the California exemption for pre-1976 cars from emission testing is specifically for vehicles that are in their stock configuration. Once you modify your 914 with a non-stock /6, V8 or large type IV, it is no longer emission testing exempt. So the premise of using only pre-76 vehicles for electrical modification just doesn't hold water...

OK, I guess it's time for the judgemental posters out there to flame me now...

Eric (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

If your refering to my post Eric I would never flame you or make your choices for you. Who am I to judge you? I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Notice I added (IMHO)
It has always been my understanding that people have been marketing electric vehicle conversions as a green way to go. I simply pointed out the "cons" that are never talked about.
Then there is the issue of climate. Electric cars would never work here. It was 13 below zero here this morning. A battery powered starter on a gas engine doesn't spin over fast enough in these temps to start some cars much less drive to the mall and back. I'm just stating another side of the issue. So for me, it would matter if the electric conversion was in a 1970 or a 1976. I couldn't get around the block today with the current battery tecnology. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) So, IMHO, battery power is a waste of time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Remember, This is flat text. It's easy to read things into someones post. Specially if you have an opposing opinion.

[CliffBraun]

as the smog checks in California aren't required on Pre-76 cars.

Hijack

Good to know. I have been doing some research on this. Do you have a one stop web site? the info I have gathered so far is conflicting.

Smog checks are not required, however it is still illegal to modify any emissions equipment by both CA and federal law.

If you get caught (heh), you get the pleasure of returning the car to stock and visiting a smog ref.

There's a thread about me that's got a pretty good primer on this stuff, but that's the summary.

[ericread]

as the smog checks in California aren't required on Pre-76 cars.

Hijack

Good to know. I have been doing some research on this. Do you have a one stop web site? the info I have gathered so far is conflicting.

From the California DMV Web page:

Smog Information
Currently, smog inspections are required for all vehicles except diesel powered vehicles, electric, natural gas powered vehicles over 14,000 lbs, hybrids, motorcycles, trailers, or vehicles 1975 and older.

Here's the link: http://dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2535

Eric Read (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[creeg123]

I bought a 73 teener that has been converted. It needs new batteries before it will work, and Im moving right now, so its gonna be a while before its running.

The new battery technology is not going to be available (or economical) until at least 2012. Otherwise, you will spend $10K on the Lithium batteries.
Yes, lead acids are heavy, but they can do the job for commutes (up to 30-40 miles). Once the battery technology catches up, there will be electric 914s out there that will blow the doors off any gassers.

I think that everyone is entitled to their opinions- but you have to consider all the factors involved, such as the price of gas (which will probably rise of over the summer), the environment, and the fact that the 914 is a realy good car for this coversion: it looks great, has LOTS of space for batteries, and is easy to work with.

I understand why you would want to only convert post-76 cars, but people can do whatever they want to their cars (with the limits of the law, and sometimes outside that). And besides, where do you draw the line on modifications to your car? Keep it 100% stock? Only use Porsche-approved aftermarket kits? Or is the line drawn at the conversion from gas to electric?

Its up to people to do what they want with their car. That ability to express yourself and be unique through your car is what makes them great.

[KaptKaos]

Joes comment, I believe is mostly for California people since 1976 cars are required to have the mandatory smog check. Because of that, they cannot be modified much, if at all (with an electric conversion being an exception). That would leave all the pre 76 cars available for modification (V8, large type IV, six etc). There is a nice 76 with a salvage title for sale here on the central California coast that would be a great candidate for electric conversion. If you are thinking of doing an electric conversion in California, I would encourage you to look for a 76.

Cheers, Elliot

You old smoothy!

Thanks for making me look stupider (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

So yeah, um, what Elliot said.